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Old Jun 02, 2007, 08:07 PM
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Tim

Sounds bearely plausible.

erich
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Old Jun 03, 2007, 03:20 AM
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According to the Local shop, the owner went out of business due to ill health caused by the materials used in building the pilots.

Tim, youre sadly right about shops now. Its the same here. Luckily my local shop and club still has a healthy group of model builders to support so you can find pretty much all the bits you need. I dont wish to push my views on anyone and I still treat everyone equal but its a shame to see so few built models. I regard building models as part of the whole experience. Thats why I admire you and erich for your efforts. Sure it costs more than ARTF, involves though and consideration but the finished article is your work and totally unique. I like to think that every dodgy bit of covering, every errant blob of glue is a expression of freedom from ARTF . I also get huge pride from seeing my creation get airborne.

Last week my club was full of crappy box trainers and screemin 2 strokes. Sitting proudly in between was my pup, hannibal and my vintage floater. The older modellers make a beeline for you and cant resist asking about them. I have to admit there were a few times when building the hannibal at night in a freezing garage that I thought, why not just buy a ARTF? The truth is , I love the thought processes involves in building, the trial and error, the way the anticipation builds as you see it come together.

I got into a real argument with our club chairman once when he advised a newbie to sell there lovely home built flair magnatilla and buy a crappy trainer to learn to fly on . The guy had done an A1 job on building it and it would make an excellent basic trainer but wit a difference. Why push someone to do that? I got the impression some people are intimidated by home built stuff either because they cant or are unable to build.

Frankly, even if someone turned up with a poorly built home built model , Id show them more respect than if they just bought something off the shelf....

Viva la difference!!!!!
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Old Jun 03, 2007, 08:47 AM
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Houston Texas
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Adam :

I agree with you, the funnest or best part of the hobby is building.

I dont feel agrivation towards the ARF people, I kinda feel they are missing out.

I hope I dont disapoint you but I have a couple of ARF's.

They were some that I just thought was neat and got them to play with but they arnt considered my "Pride and Joys". They are my ARF planes.

Im trying to deside what to build now after I finnish my Bristol.
I think Ive narrowed it down now to two possably ????????

The Curtis Jenny Jn4
http://www.proctor-enterprises.com/p...enny/jenny.htm

and the Avro 504 K
http://arizonamodels.com/product_inf...products_id/53

I know they are a little exspensive but they come with everything in the kit except for covering so when you think about that its not bad at all.
I have about $800.00 in my Bristol and thats with me having to shop around at all the craft stores several different times to get ideals for how to make something and with these kits everything is threre.

Except I dont think the wire wheels come with the Curtis Jenny Jn4.(I have to email them about that )

The Curtis Jenny is 87" wing span which is a nice sizes but $100.00 more and the Avro 504 K is 110" wingspan.

But at the same time I have to be realistic, I dont know if I have anywhere to put the Avro 504 K after I build it.

So I have quite a decission.

The Curtis Jenny is one Ive wanted to build for years and years !!

But the Avro 504 K is so much plane and all the scale parts to build a completely scale plane for $750.00 + $35.00 shipping.

What do you and Erich think ????


SEEYA GUY'S, TIM
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Old Jun 03, 2007, 11:02 AM
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Tim

I definitely think you should build the Flair Tiger Moth. Because I'm going to do up that Jenny one of these days. They're both beautiful (Tiger, Jenny). The Avro looks good too, but a little like a Pup. 100" span is awfully big, like you said hard to store or even haul around. Had a Proctor kit (parasol), many years ago. They're worth the price.

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Old Jun 03, 2007, 11:17 AM
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Erich :

Ya I love that Jenny, I really think I'm leaning towards it.

Sorry but we live far apart anyway so it wont be like we are at the field at the same time

But that would be cool anyway !!!!

SEEYA, TIM
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Old Jun 03, 2007, 11:43 AM
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Im limited by weight for club reasons so have little experience of big models. The 504 gets my vote though to make the decision harder!!! Ive personally got my heart set on a big 1/3 rd scale pup from balsa usa. Now that gets the blood pumping.

The flair tiger moth is lovely and Ive seen a few examples up close. I like the way the wings are detachable each side in one unit, rigging inc, so no complex rigging other than inserting the wings into alu tubes.

Thats the one problem with biplanes, the rigging.

tim,

Ive had a few ARTF in my time, mostly as the result of a rash purchase off ebay. Some performed very well, some were poorly made and some excellent. My dads got a hanger 9 cub thats fantastic quality and on my list once Ive saved up.
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Old Jun 03, 2007, 11:50 AM
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Hey maybe we could post builds at the same time. Sorta like "Dueling Jenny's" Can't you just hear the theme song.

Just a word about ARF's. They do serve a purpose. Lotta people just don't want to build, so for them these are great. However if one does have any affinity to making things, a kit is by far the more satisfying. A personal observation: making up an arf is sorta like having a baby without the sex. Works.....but not as much fun.

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Last edited by erich; Jun 03, 2007 at 11:56 AM.
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Old Jun 03, 2007, 12:12 PM
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Houston Texas
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Erich :

That was a very good way to exsplain ARF's and I dont have anything against them eather but I just enjoy building which I am just repeating myself now I guess !

Adam :

Yes I know exactly what you mean as far as sizes of these planes
The Proctor Curtis Jenny has the plug in wings also and they stay rigged as well.

The Duelling Jenny's do soud cool !!

SEEYA, GUY's
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Old Jun 03, 2007, 04:48 PM
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Vertical Stabalizer

H. stab came out so well, decided to put on V. stab. This was a little easier as the reference points are more obvious. Fin needs to be vertical to wings,which is easy to check visually. Plus needs to be on a straight center line. Used 3' steel ruler to align with center point on cowl. Also used a small triangle to check squareness to H. stab. Used a straight spruce stick taped to fuselage to keep back of fin even with back of fuselage. Again used 30 min epoxy.

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Old Jun 03, 2007, 08:15 PM
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Erich :

I dont think you could have gotten it any straighter than that.

SEEYA, TIM
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Old Jun 03, 2007, 11:08 PM
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Not sure about that, but it's done now, so it's stayin where it is. Did it mostly by sight. You know the tried and mostly true...TLAR...method. Went out and bought an APC prop, had to get a wooden one too, they look a lot better. In fact the APC props were the ugliest in the store. But if they give that much extra power, I want it on for the first flight.

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Old Jun 04, 2007, 03:25 AM
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Just in case you didnt know, dont leave wooden props attached to the engine after flying as it compresses the wood and eventually bottoms out the lock nuts. Ive had to cut one off before to free it.

The APC props look evil but will give you 20% + more power.

Not knocking ARTF , just noting its sad not to see homebuilt models anymore. I like erich description of ARTF v Building! At least it lasts longer and cost less! I have one of both!!
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Old Jun 04, 2007, 11:17 AM
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Thanks Adam, did not know that, about wood props. May have to modify a wooden prop just for the looks of it (sorta like Tim did). Have noticed the prop really adds (or subtracts) a lot to the way a plane looks.

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Old Jun 04, 2007, 08:30 PM
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Control surfaces

Glued in elevator and rudder hinges using 30 min epoxy thickened with cabosil. Used tape to hold em tight against fin and h. stab, to keep gap to minimum. Once glue had set went about stringing the controls. Was in too much of a hurry to get this done, forgot to take pics of rudder and elevator, after gluing them on. Setting up the controls at the servo end was no problem. Used the parts that came with the pull-pull kit (Sullivan). Threading the elevator string through fuselage was fairly easy. BUT had now way of getting string through the rudder exits, as they were too far in the partially covered fuselage. Sooo...pushed in a 8" piece of kevlar string from outside to inside of fuse, then CA'd this to control kevlar line and pulled through. Used 3 simple hitches (with some tension on strings) to tie strings to control horns, then added a drop of thin CA. Had the battery charged up to test em. THEY WORK.

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Old Jun 04, 2007, 10:15 PM
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Erich :

Your "non-scale way of upper control line clearing h. stab", looks fantastic.
I like it !!

I dont know how the APC props give more power but they do.
Its something to do with that twisted looking shape they have.
I seen a documentary type show once exsplaining how they made a fan blow with much more force by changing the shape of the blades to a somewhat tear drop shape and I guess these APC props are along the same lines as that.

SEEYA, TIM
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