Creation vs Evolution

[Tim Jonas]

Although a good, Mass-going Catholic, I have great difficulty with creation.


Fight's on!

[orectolobus]

If you found a Hitec 555 receiver washed up on a beach
would you conclude that it had an intelligent designer or
just happen to assemble itself by chance from random
bits of matter and perfect circumstance over millions of
years.

Probably not, as it is far too complex and organized to
have made without some serious itelligence, thought
and planning behind it.

[SchiessCo]

Ah, but the 555 evolved from the 535...

[Mitch G]

I was thinking of starting a thread on this topic myself after reading about a school board decision recently that allowed theories other than Evolution to be taught in schools. It was actually a very well phrased resolution by the school board, imho. But, that's a bit off-topic.

Anyway, I don't think someone/thing created life on Earth. Instead, I think the Earth is a place where life can't help but come into existence. And, I generally think that there are other planets (or satellites of planets) where life probably arises. But, it's probably single cellular or maybe some simple form of multicellular life, or even possibly a form of animal life. But, the process of cell specialization that is required in animals makes me think that we (Earthlings) just got lucky.

So, I think Earth is probably a very special place in that sentient life, let alone complex life, formed here. When you think of all the things that had to conspire to make us, we are pretty lucky to exist.

In fact, I'm currently reading Rare Earth which does a pretty good job making the case that complex life is rare in the Universe. Another interesting book on the subject is Early Life by Lynn Margulis, et al.



Mitch

[notoatmeal]

Originally posted by orectolobus
If you found a Hitec 555 receiver washed up on a beach
would you conclude that it had an intelligent designer or
just happen to assemble itself by chance from random
bits of matter and perfect circumstance over millions of
years.

Probably not, as it is far too complex and organized to
have made without some serious itelligence, thought
and planning behind it.

who designed the designer then?

[notoatmeal]

Originally posted by Mitch
I was thinking of starting a thread on this topic myself after reading about a school board decision recently that allowed theories other than Evolution to be taught in schools. It was actually a very well phrased resolution by the school board, imho. But, that's a bit off-topic.

Mitch

if you are thinking of georgia, actually, it is a terrible resolution.

there is no other scientific theories that explain the observations.

evolution is as solid of a science as you can get.

for example: we know how evolution changes allele frequencies in populations of organisims (genetics, natural selection, sexual selection, gene transfer)

we do not know how gravity functions.

so do people think an alternate theory of gravity should be discussed in science class?

[Ben C]

Originally posted by Mitch
Instead, I think the Earth is a place where life can't help but come into existence. And, I generally think that there are other planets (or satellites of planets) where life probably arises. But, it's probably single cellular or maybe some simple form of multicellular life, or even possibly a form of animal life. But, the process of cell specialization that is required in animals makes me think that we (Earthlings) just got lucky.

Is the universe thought to be infinite? If it is, there are an infinite number of planets, like ours, with solar systems and complex, intelligent life forms. Which, as a sidenote, evolved all by themselves. For they know nothing of our god(s).


-Ben

[logan5]

I think a couple 100 million years ago a bunch of really advanced aliens came and messed with Earth's gene pool and thereby set the stage for inteligent life. I have no doubt that somewhere in our future we'd do the same on some other planet.

logan5

[Ben C]

Originally posted by logan5
I think a couple 100 million years ago a bunch of really advanced aliens came and messed with Earth's gene pool and thereby set the stage for inteligent life. I have no doubt that somewhere in our future we'd do the same on some other planet.

logan5

Ah, but who messed up THEIR gene pool? Etc, etc.... I love infinity, don't you..?


-Ben

[Doc Data]

Originally posted by logan5
I think a couple 100 million years ago a bunch of really advanced aliens came and messed with Earth's gene pool and thereby set the stage for inteligent life.

...and when they visited recently they were heard to say...
"Rats! There's another experiment that didn't work out!"


dd.

[Viper Pilot]

Why not some of both????

"Therefore I should infer from analogy that probably all the organic beings which have ever lived on this earth have descended from some one primordial form, into which life was first breathed. "

and

"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved."

Both quotes are from the finals paragraphs of Darwins "Origin".

Why can't God "originate" and then let His "Laws" take over from there. I see no real dispute, except when people start talking about "special creation".

VP

[Mitch G]

With regards to the resolution, what I liked about it was that it did not require teaching creationism and evolution as other school districts have done (or at least tried?). My interpretation of it was that, sure, perhaps one teacher may introduce creationism, but another may use it as an opportunity to look at other theories of evolution such as punctuated equilibrium. And, I figured if a teacher started teaching creationism, the parent could always set the kid straight (if the parent was so inclined).

To Viper's comments, I think I agree with your comment. But, the devil (or God) is in the details. For some folks (e.g. me) God is the very nature of the Universe that allows/causes planets like Earth to exist which in turn allows/causes life to arise. For others, God is a conscious being that started things rolling and in some cases continues to tweek things over time. Either of these are fine with me. But, I really have a problem when God is a conscious being that created dogs, cats, humans, etc. about 5000 years ago or whatever it is.


Mitch

[leccyflyer]

Because VP if that were accepted as the case by Christians, then the Biblical account of The Creation in Genesis would not be completely factually correct.

Once the Biblical account of Genesis is thus discredited as the true Word then by extension the rest of the Bible would be discredited to a certain extent as well.

Thus any diversion from the Creation account in Genesis is considered to be a fundamental departure from the faith of the literal believer in the nature of Scripture as Holy Writ and would undermine the entire concept of the Bible as the given Word of God.

Brian

[petn7]

could God make a burrito so hot that even he couldn't eat it?

[Viper Pilot]

Originally posted by Brian Cullen
. . . . .Once the Biblical account of Genesis is thus discredited as the true Word then by extension the rest of the Bible would be discredited to a certain extent as well. . . .

That's the crux of the whole thing. IMO, Genesis is NOT a scientific Doctrine in any sense. It is the "logical" attempt at explaining something, and that the people of that time had NO concept of science. Look at the various religions explanation of the Creation. It varys, but not that much. A feeble attempt at explaining things they had no deductive knowledge of.

Creationism, as a science, holds no water (in fact it leaks like a sieve). Special creation is pure egotism.

But the concept of evolution does not exclude the presence of a Creator (this subject bothered Darwin to no end, both personally and socially).

Enough rambling. I think you get my point.

VP