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Old Oct 01, 2002, 08:06 AM
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vintage1's Avatar
East Anglia, UK
Joined Sep 2002
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Sport scale Sopwith Camel - any gotchas?

I am about to start design on a speed 400 sopwith camel.

Airframe weight etc and so on I can handle,, what I am after is any feedback on people who have done this before.

Two areas look a bit worrying -

- tip stall. Those wing sections look very thin...anyone got any ideas on what to do to get good low speed performance (might add a bit of aileron offset to give washout :-)). The model will be lightly built - 20 oz on 375 sq inches if I can get it there, so will be a slow old thing...

- That undercart!!! on the scale I am using scale prop looks about 9.5", which is neat cos a 10x7 is exactly what motocalc comes up with...but the wheels will be 3" in diamater!!! On a very tall undercart.

I am not overly concerned with takeoff - a hefty chuck will do that, but is it a nose over job on landing?

I am breaking too many expensive prpps but I *won't* go folder...:-)
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Old Oct 01, 2002, 08:39 AM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
12,788 Posts
You couldn't find a worse handling prototype to model, could you?

Find a Peter Rake design (they are real hard to avoid in England, I understand they are now appearing on cereal boxes ) and copy the wing sections and stuff off it.

if you use a flat bottomed section, the wings are low AR enough to take care of tipstalls as long as the CG is decently placed.

You'd probably get real help from the maestro himself in the scale section, but - taken from Gordon Whitehead's book on scale modelling - make the tailplane larger, so you can move the CG back a tad, then move the wheels forward a tad so you have more chance of finishing landing rolls upright, but it doesn't look as daft as just moving the wheels way forwards.

At that size, it probably will nose-over on anything rougher than your village cricket green or tarmac anyway.

Good luck!

D
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Old Oct 01, 2002, 10:00 AM
BillBowne
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IIRC, the Camel was an outgrowth of the Pup. Since nothing could be a sweeter flyer than a Pup, how about using Peter's Pup plans, then making the mods to make it look like a Camel?

Bill B.
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Old Oct 01, 2002, 10:42 AM
Ascended Master
Sparky Paul's Avatar
Palmdale, CA
Joined Oct 2000
13,371 Posts
The plane will be so light that tip stalls shouldn't occur unless you force them.
At the speed you want to fly the airfoil makes no difference. A flat plate would work.
The ailerons on a Camel are TOO much! My 1/5th scale glow-powered version flew quite well with only the lower ailerons working. Activating the upper ailerons merely made the rolls worse, due to all the drag of the down going ailerons (speaking of which, along with Peter's construction article on the TM in Flying Scale Models the ailerons on the full-scale are rigged to 1/4" (one quarter inch) down! with 3-3/4" up.)
Another "feature" of the Camel is the marked difference in flight power-on/power-off. The high mounted wing creates a lot of drag that is very noticeable when power is cut. Lots of down elevator needed to keep the glide speed up.
.
*The Camel is about the only fighter aircraft with a "negative" kill ratio. More pilots died in Camels than it shot down in combat.
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Old Oct 01, 2002, 02:39 PM
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vintage1's Avatar
East Anglia, UK
Joined Sep 2002
29,689 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Dereck
You couldn't find a worse handling prototype to model, could you?

Find a Peter Rake design (they are real hard to avoid in England, I understand they are now appearing on cereal boxes ) and copy the wing sections and stuff off it.

if you use a flat bottomed section, the wings are low AR enough to take care of tipstalls as long as the CG is decently placed.
I am well known as a sucker for punishment. Here is my last but one , still unfinshed scratch built 'project' (I did have some professional help) - shot taken from my 'flying' field....I am sitting in the window to the right of the tatched section upostairs as I write...

AR?

I'd certainly use a thin flat bottomed section - not into all that jigging to do undercambered...
Quote:


You'd probably get real help from the maestro himself in the scale section, but - taken from Gordon Whitehead's book on scale modelling - make the tailplane larger, so you can move the CG back a tad, then move the wheels forward a tad so you have more chance of finishing landing rolls upright, but it doesn't look as daft as just moving the wheels way forwards.
Hmm. Tailplane looks OK to me. Forward CofG no problem with a 8 cell back sitting under the motor in that thwacking great cowl..
Quote:

At that size, it probably will nose-over on anything rougher than your village cricket green or tarmac anyway.

Good luck!

D
Yeah, well as long as I don't break *too* many more props. I am keeping APC in profit singlehandedly at the moment...

Actually I don't really care about it nosing over. Very scale according to some pictures I saw :-)

I care about expensive damege!
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Old Oct 01, 2002, 02:40 PM
Over Engineered
Robert Hoffman's Avatar
Michigan
Joined Jul 2002
1,991 Posts
Try this site. They offer a short kit (Plans, Ribs and Formers only) for just what you are looking for. There is also a huge discussion on this model in the scale section. To answer your question Yes it is possible. This model will also ROG in grass.

http://www.aerodromerc.com/
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Old Oct 01, 2002, 02:47 PM
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vintage1's Avatar
East Anglia, UK
Joined Sep 2002
29,689 Posts
No camel, but precisely the wingspan and AUW and everything. Hey, if my Camel works, they can kit it for the rest of you right?

Its *very* encouraging to see that someone else has come up with almost identical dimensions, weights, power unit and wheel construction.

Honestly, apart from the struts and ailerons, it looks a dead easy plane to model in traditional balsa..biggest challenge will be to keep the weight down and the strength up.

The great thing about a model like this, is its probably less than a weeks work, and less than $40 parts cost (ex 'hard'; stuff, which will outlast an unsuccessful model), so if its a bust, its no big deal. Contrast with a big model with hundreds of pounds/euros/dollars or WHY invested...and it breaks first flight :-(
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