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Old Feb 14, 2007, 10:26 AM
BYOP - Build Your Own Planes
Mountain Models's Avatar
United States, WI, Appleton
Joined Mar 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Binder
One idea was to have the builder cover the tail and then attach it to the fuse. (SNIP) What are your thoughts?
And chance it coming loose in flight? Very bad idea.

<ADDED>
I truely think balsa to balsa is a much better joint. I have personally seen solite and C/A joints fail. Of course, yes these failures were on larger models than the Dandy. But, I personally think it's better. If some of you guys think it works great, well cool then.
</ADDED>
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Last edited by Mountain Models; Feb 14, 2007 at 08:20 PM. Reason: Added additional comments
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Old Feb 14, 2007, 11:10 AM
Leave me alone!
Martin Hunter's Avatar
Kamloops, BC, Canada
Joined Feb 2002
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I do it Matthew's way all the time on planes up to about 1 lb AUW. A great glue to use for a fillet after the initial joint is formula 56 canopy glue. It loves sticking to covering of all sorts.

Martin
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Old Feb 14, 2007, 02:40 PM
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Controlled Fall's Avatar
Chantilly, VA
Joined Dec 2006
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Wow, so much activity while I slept (and shoveled snow)!

Buzz,
Thanks for the tip re: the sport wing. I finally clued in that if I went and looked at the spare parts section of the MM site, I would find a wing. Of course I would have to also spring for a new radio, but I'll cross that bridge in the spring perhaps.

Since I have pretty much have finished the fuse, it does indeed sound like covering time! I didn't get Solite but the cheaper Towerkote. I figured I'd make a mess at half price. Guess I should have asked before pulling that trigger huh?

Bruce,
Holy cow! Lots of info! Thanks! The LHS does have quite a few of Higley's books, and I'll look into that CD if my initial test covers flop. I didn't like the way the stabilizers turned out when I painted them. The pictures posted at the beginning of this build don't do justice as to how awful they look! I was curious about that BLT. It was hard to judge scale, but would it theoretically be possible to fly something of that apparent size in say...a 50' x 80' backyard?

TC and Martin,
Actually I have indeed found that covering tutorial in prior research and have saved me the trouble of providing the footnote. I tried to print out the pictoral part of that post at work one day and ended up causing a massive printer jam. That'll teach me to bring my personal life to the work place!

If you all don't mind, I may wait and see how the adhesion/covering debate settles out the next day or so. My instincts would be to glue balsa to balsa, but I also need a little time to refresh myself with Martin's tutorial...
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Old Feb 14, 2007, 02:54 PM
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Controlled Fall's Avatar
Chantilly, VA
Joined Dec 2006
213 Posts
The next model...

And in case you all noticed that I'm too cheap to spring for solite covering and store tutorials yet speak freely of purchasing radios and new planes, then yes, you're paying attention! I realize the folly of my ways, but somehow I'm thinking that saving a few pennies here will allow me to get some more models into my basement!

So I've been toying with what to do next. The weather here in Virginia has not been plane friendly lately so I'm in build mode rather than "learning to fly" mode. I eventually want to build a plane (and prove some folks wrong ) that is best described as biplane in shape. Probably not the easiest thing to learn on huh?

I've got a basic design but have not finalized my wing load, overall weight, and powerplant yet. However, I want to get the following nagging uncertainty off my brain...

First set of questions: An R/C model biplane pretty much needs 4 or 5 channels? Do both wings on a biplane get ailerons? Is it even possible to fly a 3 channel biplane with thrust, elevator, and rudder?

Second question: Would the EVA bipe be a good second balsa build for me to expand my skills?

BTW, Buzz, I did run across your build thread! I'll be reading through more of that as soon as I get the hang of Martin's!
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Old Feb 14, 2007, 03:06 PM
ODB VI September 2014
1987tc's Avatar
United States, OK, Weleetka
Joined Dec 2000
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The Eva Bipe ( all Evas really) is an easy build. And can be flown on four channels.
If you want a balsa Biplane that can use 3 channels then you can go with the Bantam Bipe from srbatteries.com It is a small cabin biplane and is also laser cut.

And of course if foam is ok there is also the Gold olde reliable GWS Pico Tigermoth!
Wes
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Old Feb 14, 2007, 04:08 PM
Don't watch this...
CooHead's Avatar
Northern IL
Joined Oct 2003
5,583 Posts
I'm all up for covering all parts and then glueing the covered parts to each other...especially on these smaller planes. Cutting the covering off to glue wood-to-wood could (will) score the balsa and make a weak point that could (probably would) break sooner than cover to cover glue would come loose. A fillet of more glue is always a good added bit of insurence.

Eva Bipe build is just like SB and most every other MM build. You do good on this SB and you'll be fine for any other, similiar laser cut kit build.




I remember days of saving money in the hobby. Canned EPS350 motors and cheap LiPos. Heck man, my second plane was the FlashBack. Doug tried to get me to buy a HiMax brushless and CC25 ESC...but $100 bucks?! No way. The EPS400 was good enough...for a couple dozen batt packs and then I bought the HiMax.

Flash4 Tx was good enough...for awhile.
Charging one LiPo at a time was good enough...
Makeing my own skis was good enough...
Useing up all the scraps of SoLite for the next plane was good enough...

Now, I don't even look at the price, just buy what I want.

G'Luk
Coo
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Old Feb 14, 2007, 04:14 PM
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leipold's Avatar
Wilmington, Delaware, USA
Joined Jul 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Controlled Fall
Bruce ... I was curious about that BLT. It was hard to judge scale, but would it theoretically be possible to fly something of that apparent size in say...a 50' x 80' backyard?
I have a similar question. I'm inspired and motivated by this most excellent build thread, but I'd like to build something to fly in my cul-de-sac and up and down the street. The cul-de-sac is about 100 feet across. The MM Dandy seems just a little large/heavy to fly in that space. Can anybody tell me if the MM Duskstick would fit any better?
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Old Feb 14, 2007, 05:15 PM
cfw
fly! be free! uh oh
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Spokane, WA
Joined Nov 2004
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The Duskstik can fly a lot slower, and can be handled in that space.
There's also a CDS flyer, scratch build only, but there's not many pieces. Smaller than the Duskstik, about 24" span.

The dandy built light would probably be do-able though. Depends on if the cul-de-sac is surrounded by trees and lightpoles, or just front yards...
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Old Feb 14, 2007, 05:45 PM
AMA# 851123
brucea's Avatar
Bailey, CO
Joined Apr 2006
1,540 Posts
Ifo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Controlled Fall
<snip> Bruce,
I was curious about that BLT. It was hard to judge scale, but would it theoretically be possible to fly something of that apparent size in say...a 50' x 80' backyard? <snip>
Dear Controlled and leipold,

The Great Planes BLT, and the very similar (but better) MM DuskStick, are classic 3-channel "stick" trainers. These planes, when trimmed, will fly themselves. However, these types of planes give up maneuverability for stability. My BLT has a 42" wingspan and an AUW of 8.4 ounces. However, the BLT takes up an awful lot of sky!

The planes that I use in my backyard are a T-IFO, and a IFO MK3. The T-IFO (Trainer-Indoor Flying Object) is a rudder and elevator three channel plane that can turn on a dime, flys at walking speed, and can take a beating! The IFO M3 is bigger, faster, uses elevons, and can loop inside a hula hoop.

IFOs are sorta kits. They are very quick to build, and are made of CF rod and ripstop nylon.

I live in a forest in Colorado and I fly these IFO's weaving in-and-out between pine trees! Wild RC sells IFOs.

http://www.flyifo.com/index.html

These are realy cool planes!


Thanks, Bruce
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Old Feb 14, 2007, 06:15 PM
De Chelonian Mobile!
leipold's Avatar
Wilmington, Delaware, USA
Joined Jul 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucea
Dear Controlled and leipold,

The Great Planes BLT, and the very similar (but better) MM DuskStick, are classic 3-channel "stick" trainers. These planes, when trimmed, will fly themselves. However, these types of planes give up maneuverability for stability. My BLT has a 42" wingspan and an AUW of 8.4 ounces. However, the BLT takes up an awful lot of sky!

The planes that I use in my backyard are a T-IFO, and a IFO MK3. The T-IFO (Trainer-Indoor Flying Object) is a rudder and elevator three channel plane that can turn on a dime, flys at walking speed, and can take a beating! The IFO M3 is bigger, faster, uses elevons, and can loop inside a hula hoop.
I have a T-IFO, and I'm building a Lightflite Bug -- see pics. The T-IFO is a cool plane, and I've been planning on building a real IFO this Spring. The T-IFO flies in the cul-de-sac, and I'm sure the Bug will too.

But now ControlledFall's thread has me thinking about building a balsa plane, which I haven't done for 25 years or so. I'd like one that I can fly without driving to the park. The Duskstick looks awful cute -- I guess I'll build one (with the short wing) and see whether it will handle in the cul-de-sac.

Please keep the build log going, CF -- we're all enjoying it!
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Old Feb 14, 2007, 09:25 PM
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Albuquerque, NM USA
Joined Sep 2003
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You might also look at the C-180. I used to fly it in my front yard. I had a small CDROM in it wo I could launch and climb above the trees to fly, then thread the needle to land. Keep it light and it might be OK. Like above said, it depends on what the obstacles are around the circle.

Biplanes on 3ch (R/E/T) are common in the sport scale world. Pat Tritle and Peter Rake have many of them.

charlie
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Old Feb 14, 2007, 10:31 PM
AMA# 851123
brucea's Avatar
Bailey, CO
Joined Apr 2006
1,540 Posts
Maybe a Little StevensAero Plane?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leipold
<snip>But now ControlledFall's thread has me thinking about building a balsa plane, which I haven't done for 25 years or so. I'd like one that I can fly without driving to the park. The Duskstick looks awful cute -- I guess I'll build one (with the short wing) and see whether it will handle in the cul-de-sac.

Please keep the build log going, CF -- we're all enjoying it!
Dear leipold,

I got to thinking. StevensAero has a class of plane called "Indoor and Backyard".

StevensAero Indoor Planes

I only have experience with the Lil' Squirt. The Lil' Squirt can fly in a very confined space. I don't think you can go wrong with an SA kit.

Thanks, Bruce
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Old Feb 15, 2007, 12:35 PM
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Controlled Fall's Avatar
Chantilly, VA
Joined Dec 2006
213 Posts
Say you're sanding your fuselage smooth and notice that one of the joints didn't get glued very tight. You do a quick touch up and totally bond your thumb and index finger even though they were over an inch away from the joint. You have to drive your wife to the doctor in 45 minutes. After liberally pouring nail polish into the "new joints" where fingers meet cowl...what effect will this have on the balsa and existing bonds?

Off to the doc...more info later!....
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Old Feb 16, 2007, 06:59 AM
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Controlled Fall's Avatar
Chantilly, VA
Joined Dec 2006
213 Posts
Wow, I am continually amazed at the great content that shows up while I'm leading my other life!

Wes, Bruce, Portable, and Cfwdude: Thanks for the plane tips. I am pretty excited about my second (the bipe to win a bet) and third (something I can fly without leaving the neighborhood) projects!

Coo: Give me some time, I'm still at the top of the slippery slope you so obviously have tumbled!

Leipold: Thanks! I'm glad my humble work provides some inspiration!

And no I have not covered yet.
Perhaps I should not have spent the five minutes it took to ask about the acetone bath I gave my plane yesteray...we were ten minutes late to my wife's appointment. At least she is clear to drive now!
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Old Feb 16, 2007, 07:13 AM
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Controlled Fall's Avatar
Chantilly, VA
Joined Dec 2006
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Back to the Build

Hopefully I can get this out before my PC crashes...its NOT happy about my recent Photoshop work!

At any rate, some of this material is old as I have spent a lot of energy worry and procrastinating about ruining, I mean, covering my model.

The other day I performed what appeared to be a routine operation of glueing the four engine block sides together. Just as I was about to apply glue to wood, I was summoned upstairs. When I returned, the four pieces collapsed and had lost the "tension" that was holding them together. It was like building a house of cards, and it took me fifteen minutes of patient maniupulating to get them back to where I was. Glue applied, block is square, life is good again.

After a lot of sanding, I test fit the block to the motor (below).

When I applied the cowl, I breathed a sigh of relief. Those pieces were ingeniously packaged to hold landing gear structure but could have looked like scrap wood. Fortunately, I kept everything!

So now my fuselage is finished!

I started sanding and rounding yesterday in the brief window of time I had between doctor's appointments and as you may have surmised, I really had a cluster- with my CA touch up

So hopefully my fusleage isn't totally acetoned-up.
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