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Old Oct 09, 2002, 11:19 PM
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Lefty and Leroy's Avatar
Central Texas
Joined Jan 2002
377 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by BEC
...I'm curious, though, what exactly are you looking to do differently than those of us using the 16T motor?
BEC, thanks for your patience, I suppose Iím trying to get the best of both worlds a little better performance than the stock GWS 300 and duration too. I didnít realize that the /20 would need more voltage. I think Iíll stick with the /16 like you guys and If I want more duration Iíll just ease off the throttle.

02ViperTwin, let us know how your setup works out. Still trying to decide between the Phoenix-10 and Ė25 but if this setup only draws around 7 amps maybe the Phoenix-10 would be best for me.

Thanks guys,
-LL
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Old Oct 10, 2002, 12:13 AM
A Clinger
rclark's Avatar
Butte, MT
Joined Sep 2001
7,075 Posts
LL,

IMHO, I'd just go with the Phoenix-25. You are not going to loose any detectable performance due to added weight and you'll have an ESC that you can grow with.... I just know you'll say down the road "I want to try a 1100 NiMh pack now" with the MiniAC and oh a 10x7 prop cause I am really to rock and roll . Don't box yourself into a corner for 'future' projects....
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Old Oct 10, 2002, 02:06 AM
BEC
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Auburn, Washington USA
Joined Jan 2001
12,940 Posts
I agree with rclark - get the Phoenix 25 so you'll have grow room. With the 16 turn motor you will get a bit more duration than with the stock motor, and it'll be more fun deeper into the flight. And with the higher capacity ESC you'll be able to add power at will by just getting better batteries and a bigger prop. And then you won't look back........I know this from happy experience now.

If you really want to enforce the effect of left thumb discipline by limiting the airplane, just put on an 8X6 APC SF prop instead of the 9 incher.
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Old Oct 10, 2002, 03:30 AM
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markwild's Avatar
San Fernando Valley
Joined Jun 2002
444 Posts
L&L,
That's exactly the same combo that I ordered for my MiniFlash. Can't wait till it arrives. Read near the end of the MiniFlash building thread for some mounting instructions for the MiniAC into the GWS gearbox that Rclark and BEC both provided.
--Mark
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Old Oct 10, 2002, 09:19 AM
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Bay Area, CA
Joined May 2002
63 Posts
Re: Mounting AC1215/16 in GWS Gearbox

One thing that caught me by surprise was that the GWS motor mounting screws are not the same size as the AC1215/16's (and my motor didn't come with any mounting hardware).

If you do not have any 2.5mm x 4 screws handy (like I didn't), do yourself a favor & pick up a set while you're waiting for your motor. Du-Bro sells a package of four in its "Car Accessories" line...

Item #2115
2.5mm x 4
Socket Head Cap Screws

- or -

Item #2116
2.5mm x 6
Socket Head Cap Screws
(washers might be needed to avoid hitting the armature)

HTH!
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Old Oct 10, 2002, 09:23 AM
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Lefty and Leroy's Avatar
Central Texas
Joined Jan 2002
377 Posts
Thanks guys,

Itís Phoenix-25 and the MiniAC 1215/16 for me tooÖ.


Now where did I put that VISA card?
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Old Oct 14, 2002, 02:06 PM
Registered User
Bay Area, CA
Joined May 2002
63 Posts
QUALITATIVE Update

Hi All,

I finally received my Phoenix-25 last Friday, so I got a chance to fly my BL SBSport for the first time this morning. As a recap...

STOCK...
Gearbox: GWS EPS-300C-B
Motor: stock
Pinion: stock
Prop: GWS 9 x 7
ESC: Jeti Model JES-180
Batteries: 8 x 720NiMH

BL...
Gearbox: GWS EPS-300C-A (so I can use an off-the-shelf 64P RC Car pinion)
Motor: Model Motors Mini AC1215/16 (shaft diamter = 2.3mm; motor mount screws = 2.5mm x 4)
Pinion: Robinson Racing 64P 16T (centered on motor shaft w/3mm OD brass tube)
Prop: GWS 9 x 7 (to minimize variables)
ESC: Castle Creations Phoenix-25
Batteries: 8 x 720NiMH


Sorry that I can't provide any actual numbers (current draw, RPM, thrust, weight, etc.), but I can say the following...

* Cruising run time = ~10min (stock = ~7min)
* Thrust comparable to stock
* Speed slightly slower than stock(?)
* Battery temp *very* cool compared to stock
* Gear mesh tight (no backlash, loud)

Now, I do need to work on the backlash & I've also got the following props to try...

- GWS 8 x 6
- APC 9 x 6
- GWS 9 x 7 (stock / current)
- GWS 9 x 7 (3blade)
- APC 10 x 7

...so we'll see. However, since I was mainly looking for better reliability and longer run times, this appears to be an acceptable *starting point* for a BL SB.

Thanks to all that have given your valuable inputs on this subject! I really appreciate it!
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Old Oct 14, 2002, 02:36 PM
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San Fernando Valley
Joined Jun 2002
444 Posts
Viper,

My first flight with a Mini AC1215/16 in my C gearbox on a MiniFlash was with the same prop that I used with the stock motor. I started with a GWS 10x4.7. I found the plane performed about the same, with a 20% less amp draw.

Tests with a tach showed the prop spun at 4800 rpm at 9amps with the stock motor, and 7 amps with the BL.

Ultimately, I've put a GWS 12x6 prop, and now it flies much better, doing low speed aerobatics with high thrust (3900 rpm at 9.6amps). So, basically, I'd say throw a larger prop (either pitch, diameter or both) to really see that BL motor come into its own.

The performance isn't earth shattering, but it's definitely an increase once you start pushing more air.

--Mark
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Old Oct 14, 2002, 05:17 PM
A Clinger
rclark's Avatar
Butte, MT
Joined Sep 2001
7,075 Posts
Viper,

You won't see much diff until you go to 600s or the 1100s. Then you'll see 'quite' a boost . Remember you can't pull the amps from the 720s that the MiniAC would like to have .
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Old Oct 14, 2002, 05:26 PM
Registered User
Bay Area, CA
Joined May 2002
63 Posts
Thanks Mark.

I've heard/read that a 3-bladed 9 x 7 is about the
same as a 10 x 7, so I was going to try that next
(I fly over a grass field, so I was a bit afraid
to go to the 10" prop). If that didn't work out,
I was going to try the 9 x 6 then 10 x 7 then ???

I'm still not confident enough going ballistic, so
I'm pretty happy with the longer run time and
lower current draw for now.

Thanks again! Don
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Old Oct 14, 2002, 05:34 PM
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Bay Area, CA
Joined May 2002
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Quote:
Originally posted by rclark
Viper,

You won't see much diff until you go to 600s or the 1100s. Then you'll see 'quite' a boost . Remember you can't pull the amps from the 720s that the MiniAC would like to have .
Yeah...nothing comes for free, huh?

BTW, what configuration are you running with your
1100s? I've got a couple packs, but they are in
flat-pack form (8 x 1). Sorry if you've stated
this already...I'm just being lazy not going back
through all five pages of this thread.

Thanks again!
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Old Oct 14, 2002, 05:44 PM
A Clinger
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Butte, MT
Joined Sep 2001
7,075 Posts
For the SB 3D I fly, the battery config is a brick 4 over 4 :

XXXX
.XXXX

I understand that for the 'sport' the above won't fit... so I think you have to try to fit the 8x1 flat pack or maybe 2 sticks of 4 in somehow...... Someone out there must have done it ????
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Last edited by rclark; Oct 14, 2002 at 05:47 PM.
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Old Oct 14, 2002, 06:12 PM
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Bay Area, CA
Joined May 2002
63 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by rclark
For the SB 3D I fly, the battery config is a brick 4 over 4 :

XXXX
.XXXX

I understand that for the 'sport' the above won't fit... so I think you have to try to fit the 8x1 flat pack or maybe 2 sticks of 4 in somehow...... Someone out there must have done it ????

WAIT...what am I thinking??? My packs are not 8 x 1. Mine are two side-by-side stacks of four end-to-end (shotgun?)...

[][]
[][]
[][]
[][]

Sorry for the confusion and for not having the "decoder ring" for all the configuration names.

Thanks again. Don
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Old Oct 14, 2002, 08:27 PM
BEC
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Auburn, Washington USA
Joined Jan 2001
12,940 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by rclark
For the SB 3D I fly, the battery config is a brick 4 over 4 :

XXXX
.XXXX

I understand that for the 'sport' the above won't fit... so I think you have to try to fit the 8x1 flat pack or maybe 2 sticks of 4 in somehow...... Someone out there must have done it ????

Sure. See http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...threadid=64001 to see how I get the brick packs into the Sport. Picture near the bottom of the page.
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Old Oct 14, 2002, 08:52 PM
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mlehman's Avatar
United States, FL, Cape Coral
Joined Jun 2002
1,181 Posts
hi

I was wondering where to get the 1100 packs you guys are talking about..I`musing 720 Nimh right now

Thanks
Mike
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