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View Poll Results: How weird are we??
a li'l weird 18 38.30%
sorta weird 6 12.77%
mostly weird 15 31.91%
off the planet weird 8 17.02%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Jan 21, 2007, 07:12 AM
who has rabbit ears down
Captain Canardly's Avatar
United States, MN, Buffalo
Joined Jan 2007
3,634 Posts
Poll
Canards and other Weird One's

Howdy, Gang!!
Ifn's Ya'll gotta lil' patience, I got a lot to talk/ quack about!
I have just had my last stint of unemployment interrupted with a really kool job at RMS on third shift, but I will do my best at getting info/ pictures here as I need to mooch a friends' camera and convert to disk.

OKEY DOKEY, Let's get to it!
Back in '85, I came across one of those magazine stacks that appearred at the MRCSS Spring show and tell,and found a '75 Flying Models magazine, with Dick Sarpolis and Charley deciding to follow the Wright Bros. Footsteps.
I got started with the build,{pictures will come}, with a modification to the canard,being a 'Johnnified Clark Y. In the spring of '85, a metalic blue and trans yellow came to the field, and walked into a 10 min. flight, with others strugglin' fer 5 min. Obviously, it got a li'l attention.
I had 'the ultimate' shape in my head, which still hasn't been reallized, but with my new interest in ducted fans for power, that dream machine only needs to have the vellum application done to start it.
I'll start with flying traits;
A stable canard has a tendency to quack at every bubble of up or down bit of air it uses, and Kubiak had experienced a nose drop during turns back in his youth, SO!
1) Get a little dihedral on the canard! It has the function of lifting the nose in a turn, and it looks really gorgeous!
2) Any shoulder mounted wing can be addapted to the shape/ we had tried a couple of binder mounts, but there was some main wing 'bouncing' happening during lauches, which kinda got things a li'l exited.
3) My second design, the Counselor, was abletogo into an inverted flat spin and pop right out .( nobody told the rule of what canards were supposed to behave like!!)
4) Launching is just as any other bird, as I had the tow hook directly below the C.G. on a BOTime, and got near vertical lauch at release, The Counselor series does the same thing.
5) The center of gravity seems more forgiving when the math is done correctly for computing thw quarter chords. ( main and canard).
6) I'm a wierd kinda guy, and my canards are the only birds that fullfilled my weirdness!!
7) I'm learnin'this here Mac fer a computer, and need to work on getting the right formats to be able to download to Ya'll!

Here's a beginnin'
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Old Jan 21, 2007, 08:19 AM
Registered User
jrgospod's Avatar
Fort Wayne, IN
Joined May 2002
1,694 Posts
Ok Iíll bite.

How do you determine what the CG should be?

Are the canards used independently as AL control or are they used together as an elevator.

I donít see spoilers. Will they work on a design like this?

How do you determine the rudder area?

Youíre right, it does look gorgeous, but it also looks weird. Most of all it is interesting. Good time of the year to consider new/old designs.

John
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Old Jan 21, 2007, 09:09 AM
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USA, TX, Dallas
Joined Jan 2007
536 Posts
hard part would be remembering which way it's going from afar. seriously, I've been toying with the idea of a Saab Vigen CSS, but it's waaaay down my list of to do's.
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Old Jan 21, 2007, 09:31 AM
Registered User
Prescott Arizona
Joined Mar 2005
890 Posts
I have a Dick S. "Wierd One" 100 inch polyhedral canard with the origonal sliding mechanical mixer. It is not a competition flyer but it is a fun one to play with. I could never find a way to stall it. It just sort of slows down to a suitable speed for the amount of incidence the full flying stab gives it. The split rudder, thats one fin and two side by side rudders each with its own control arm to allow separate control, allows you to add the dimention of braking and yaw control at the same time. Interesting dont you think? Ive thought about chopping of the lead filled nose and adding an OS 25 gasser but my fever went away and I abandoned that awful thought real quick like. Sorry fellows, we all have weak moments, and besides its an origonal. I promise not to pervert this one, I will sell it first.
Bob
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Old Jan 21, 2007, 09:46 AM
Mr Kite
Webster, Minnesota
Joined Nov 2005
111 Posts
Captain Canardly

HAY is that you ? I was there that day when THE WEIRD ONE 1st went into the air and it was WOW it flys..Go Captain Canardly
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Old Jan 21, 2007, 11:13 AM
Registered User
Joined Jun 2005
2,465 Posts
Center of Gravity Calculator

This Calculator has worked flawlessly for me. It's great to see more threads on canards appearing. Captain Canard, Where have you been so long or is it that I haven't been looking very well? To bring up the calculator,Go to your browser and type in "canard center of gravity calculator",put in your measurements with 10% static margin and click where shown. Charles
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Old Jan 21, 2007, 02:32 PM
MTT
I care about rising air !
MTT's Avatar
West Chester, Ohio
Joined Feb 2002
2,009 Posts
I have always wanted to experiment with a Canard, and will finally do so, in the near future, once I get ongoing projects out of the way...

It will be an "Anara", 100" span, from a plan by Klaus Nietzer, a well known german designer,
Here 2 pics from the plan and the instructions :

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Old Jan 21, 2007, 03:08 PM
Back behind The Controls
Johnnie Paul's Avatar
Toney, AL
Joined Dec 2005
1,016 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Canardly
Howdy, Gang!!
Ifn's Ya'll gotta lil' patience, I got a lot to talk/ quack about!
I have just had my last stint of unemployment interrupted with a really kool job at RMS on third shift, but I will do my best at getting info/ pictures here as I need to mooch a friends' camera and convert to disk.

OKEY DOKEY, Let's get to it!
Back in '85, I came across one of those magazine stacks that appearred at the MRCSS Spring show and tell,and found a '75 Flying Models magazine, with Dick Sarpolis and Charley deciding to follow the Wright Bros. Footsteps.
I got started with the build,{pictures will come}, with a modification to the canard,being a 'Johnnified Clark Y. In the spring of '85, a metalic blue and trans yellow came to the field, and walked into a 10 min. flight, with others strugglin' fer 5 min. Obviously, it got a li'l attention.
I had 'the ultimate' shape in my head, which still hasn't been reallized, but with my new interest in ducted fans for power, that dream machine only needs to have the vellum application done to start it.
I'll start with flying traits;
A stable canard has a tendency to quack at every bubble of up or down bit of air it uses, and Kubiak had experienced a nose drop during turns back in his youth, SO!
1) Get a little dihedral on the canard! It has the function of lifting the nose in a turn, and it looks really gorgeous!
2) Any shoulder mounted wing can be addapted to the shape/ we had tried a couple of binder mounts, but there was some main wing 'bouncing' happening during lauches, which kinda got things a li'l exited.
3) My second design, the Counselor, was abletogo into an inverted flat spin and pop right out .( nobody told the rule of what canards were supposed to behave like!!)
4) Launching is just as any other bird, as I had the tow hook directly below the C.G. on a BOTime, and got near vertical lauch at release, The Counselor series does the same thing.
5) The center of gravity seems more forgiving when the math is done correctly for computing thw quarter chords. ( main and canard).
6) I'm a wierd kinda guy, and my canards are the only birds that fullfilled my weirdness!!
7) I'm learnin'this here Mac fer a computer, and need to work on getting the right formats to be able to download to Ya'll!

Here's a beginnin'
I love the picture of the 12'footer gliding just over your head, that plane has beautiful lines. I for one an looking forward to build pics, maybe even a nice build thread.

Thank you for sharing

Johnnie
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Old Jan 21, 2007, 07:39 PM
who has rabbit ears down
Captain Canardly's Avatar
United States, MN, Buffalo
Joined Jan 2007
3,634 Posts
Thank You All, Guys!!
Looks to me like somethin' serious is about to transpire!
Thanks, Charles, for the calculator, I'll print it and bounce it off " the Kubiak"( whobuilt the Banshee and put the landing gear on the Phantom back in his youth), as it looks like the C. G. needs to be aschooch more forward. However, the basic calcs seem to be in order.
Next important question;
I have used a full flying stab for an elevation control, which needs an extra idler arm installed at the {bottom} so that the radius of control/ incidence rod does'nt interfere with the servos' drive arc, or if your really good with a file, a slotted bellcrank for direct link. I'll get with Bill (Kubiak) to make a photo run.
Next question;
Yeah, I wanted to see the report on the Dimona when I found the site- I think that it found me!! anyway, I'm a newbie
POWER)
Bill and I came to the conclusion that ducted fan is the route to go, here, as
A) When powred with a prop (12") on a centerline pod, the moment arm was WAAAY tall, which gave a tremendous down pitch during first 100 ft. of launch. Power off gave normal soaring attitudes, minus a little drag from motor stuff.
B) without looking like a Burt Rutan Design, a pusher in the rear was going to accumulate too much unnesesary ( i don't spell good on that one) ballast.
C) We like our fingers, and back about '88-90, my life was saved when a co-flyer caught a hand ful (26 stitches) of .40 prop, whether launching or landing close by.
our first test with a GWS 50 mm fan mounted to the top in front of wing of hand launch sized bird gave us more than an extended hand launch, it actually climbed to about 25-30 ft in 100 ft circles when I did'nt clumsey thumb it. the power to weight came to 8(w) to 1(p)
I'm in process of finishing our two meter twin 50 Wemotec setup ( pictures will be coming next weekend) which was originally designed as a twin 6" puller prop just behind C. G. and prop circle clearance 2" above ground line, 1/2" forwardof leading edge of main wing ( top photo, center)
That particular bird has a flapped wing, which I wanted to try, but did it too close to the ground. ( hand launch length of flight 8 ft.) Flaps need a lotof canard authority to overcome the extreme pitching moment from flapping, and spoilers could easily be mounted, I have'nt done that,yet, butI would expect a nose down pitching.
The C. G. is at the towhook position in the launching picture.
I do believe we need to thank Dick Sarpolis and his pal, Charly to get us allinto this predicament!!.
I was talking to Bill, earlier, whojust happened to be looking at the Weird One's print
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Old Jan 21, 2007, 08:06 PM
who has rabbit ears down
Captain Canardly's Avatar
United States, MN, Buffalo
Joined Jan 2007
3,634 Posts
OOps, Sorry , jrgospod, missed your question of rudder area!
Bill has calculated the "normal" set of rules for rudder/vert area, but I kinda sortawnna dissagree a bit, as TLAR ( That Looks About Right) seems to work well, as dihedral and a canard dihedral contribute a lot into the equation.
I think that there is too much in the 12 footr', as when i lost the arument to the dust devil with this bird, she was trvelling totally broadside in a 25 mph wind. main wing is needing incidence surgury and covering to recomission, as I amalso doing the wing in 4 panels for easy transport.
Thank You All!
Johnny
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Old Jan 21, 2007, 10:26 PM
Hot Dawg Glider Pilot
schrederman's Avatar
United States, TX, Weatherford
Joined Nov 2002
7,793 Posts
Saaaayyyy....

Why not put the vertical tail on the nose as well? Anyone tried that? Now THAT would look weird...

Jack Womack
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 07:38 AM
who has rabbit ears down
Captain Canardly's Avatar
United States, MN, Buffalo
Joined Jan 2007
3,634 Posts
only if it's clear monocote!!
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 10:21 AM
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Mark Miller's Avatar
United States, WI, Waunakee
Joined Oct 2002
2,726 Posts
I flew the Captn's 12" canard a few years ago and on the first flight I felt like I had been flying it for years. I was even so bold to make a low landing pattern and land the thing. I'm sure the Captn was clentched. It did everything right and nothing wrong including being beautiful. Captn, I still want to kit that thing.

Mark Miller
Isthmus Models
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 11:22 AM
AMA 7696
O.L. Adcock's Avatar
Roswell, NM
Joined Dec 2006
512 Posts
Cool canards! Ok...Something that falls into "other weird ones".......Anyone played with forward wing sweep??? Say 30 degrees??..........O.L.
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 12:09 PM
Registered User
Joined Jun 2005
2,465 Posts
The forward rudder was added to my Egret and works really well. The forward wing sweep was tried by a friend and flies great but looks exactly like a plane backing up. Charles
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