Looking for CNC Mill Part I - Page 4

crankorgan · Oct 12, 2002, 01:16 PM

uscra122,
I use hardware store parts in most cases. If you find
a plotter, you can use it to draw the parts on the balsa. Then you
can cut them out. A plotter has problems just moving the pen!DXF files can be printed to a plotter as a PLT file. Most of the Windows versions won't let plotters work. This is why I combined CNC machines and Plotters in my designs. There are lots of ideas kicking around. I am at the point now I can start helping people. I got in over my head there for awhile. Those 16 hour days are killers! I spent seven days a week for two years designing machine. I didn't even know if there was a market. I liked RC when I was active. I figured there must be a few soles out there. I got laughed at by the Bridgeport guys. I hear Bridgeport closed up! Maybe they should have produced simple machines to cut out RC parts.

Cranky

jbourke · Oct 12, 2002, 01:28 PM

Cranky,

I'm glad to see you here! I enjoyed browsing your website a couple of weeks ago.

This thread is really interesting because I've been looking into making my own CNC machine for a couple of weeks now. I created "The Workshop" forum to give me a place to post some threads on my experience.

Coincidentally, I was planning to contact you and Zoltar and a few others to see if you guys would be intersted in talking about CNC in this new forum. In fact, I'll just move this thread to get things started.

This is a really exciting new direction for me in the hobby. I can't wait to get my first CNC machine set-up.

Jim

balsaman · Oct 12, 2002, 01:36 PM

Cranky,

I have a question. Will the 50 oz. steppers be sufficient to cut heavier woods than balsa? I may want to cut mdf, etc. in the future and only want to build once. I have seen 80 and 100 oz motors out there. Should i splurge on the heavier drive board and larger motors or is it not necessary.

I plan on using a rotozip or small router for the cut motor.

I don't want to cut at 2-3 inches per minute.

Eric

www.e-zflight.com

DICKEYBIRD · Oct 12, 2002, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crankorgan
Hi to Zoltar and DickyBird!

Nice machine DickyBird. What bit do you use with your machine.
Cranky

I built mine by modifying the plans shown in an article by Dan Mauch in the Dec. '94 issue of Nuts & Volts mag. I just used his wood machine plans and used the 3 axis motion control kit from MaxNC (stepper motors, driver card & software) I beefed it up a bit in the Z-axis bridge and used extra drawer slides on the Z plus fitted a Porter Cable 23,000 rpm trim router.

If I had it to do over (and I may just do it again!) I'd use your plans.

Mine has trouble with the X/Y table moving up & down at the limits of travel causing cutting depth inaccuracies. Yours is much simpler and more rigid.

I shouldn't complain about Dan's design though since his was designed to be a CNC circuit board driller where Z-axis depth accuracy wasn't that important and I chose to run a router with it. It does great for 2 1/2D stuff in balsa and ply.

I would like to do another one with maybe 24" to 36" X travel, more Z accuracy, learn 3D CAD and toolpaths so I can rough out plugs for wings & fuselages....then a 4 axis foam cutter....a medium size CNC mill.....oops!....I wouldn't have time to build any airplanes!

uscra112 · Oct 12, 2002, 01:55 PM

Cranky -

Just as I guessed - plotters can barely get out of their own way.

And Windows plotter-drivers are all keyed to the applications they sevice, not to plain old ASCII files like DOS drivers were.

What with the software now on the Web for a couple'a Benjis that'll run G-codes, you hardly need to fuss with using plotter software anyway.

Have you had results using plain old threaded rod for leadscrews? For the accuracy we need, that should work fine, and they'd be so cheap that if they wear out you just replace 'em.

Y'know, what we need is somebody testing and reporting on kits that have the stepper motors, controllers, cabling, and software all bundled for us to install on a structure we built ourselves. There's any number of vendors on the Web, but who knows who's got the right goods at the right price, and who doesn't? I mean, I was IN the machine tool business for years, but I myself am in the dark about these vendors. A nice website doesn't guarantee the goods. jbourke - I think you might be heading in that direction, yes?

crankorgan · Oct 12, 2002, 02:02 PM

Balsaman,
50oz motors into a 1/4-20 threaded rod gives you
100 to 250 pounds of force. Torq goes down the faster you run the motor. I would rather own a whole machine than just a great
motor system. With all hobbies, you should work your way up. That's how you learn. A friend of mine built a $800 RC plane rather than buy a trainer. He was afraid to fly it! The last I heard
it was locked in the trunk of an old car in his garage. He kid got a hold of the plane. Now parts are missing. People don't like starting on the bottom. The funny thing is you pickup so much more. Sometimes you even come up with a new idea!

Hey! is anyone using a flatbed printer to print layouts right on the balsa? and is there a synthetic material that replaces balsa.
Some kind of plastic?

Cranky

uscra112 · Oct 12, 2002, 02:05 PM

jbourke -

If you're going to "move this thread" - how do I make sure I can still find it?

Gottsta run - back on Monday.

crankorgan · Oct 12, 2002, 02:07 PM

uscra112,
HobbyCNC has complete motor systems cheap. I bought my first motors there. Lots of stuff on Ebay. I warn people about spinning the motors first. Just like RC, once you
spin the motor, the building seems to stop. Motors are the easy
part!

Cranky

crankorgan · Oct 12, 2002, 02:16 PM

Dickeybird,
Even if your machine is not perfect, I bet you learned alot! I stayed away from drawslides. Lots of people mention them. I went with roller blade bearings. They have dust caps and you can buy them at most sports stores. I bought the $32 ones then I bought the $16 ones. The cheaper ones are just as good. Rollerblade bearings are made to be around dust. My machines also use the guide and way methods like a milling machine uses.
These are also easy to keep clean. Threaded rod works great with a nylon,Delrin,Plastic or a nut made out of a chunk of white plastic (UMB?)cutting board.

Cranky

crankorgan · Oct 12, 2002, 02:19 PM

Hi,
If we move let me know.....I tend to talk to myself as it is!

Cranky

balsaman · Oct 12, 2002, 02:43 PM

Cranky,

Thanks for all the help! I am using 1/2"-10 acme threaded rod. If you say 20 pitch = 100 lbs, then my 10 pitch should be around 50 lbs. That's quite a bit. I think I will get this kit from stepperworld.com then:

http://209.41.165.153/stepper/sp3HT.htm with the FET3 upgrade for more current. Or should I forget the upgrade? the sp3 is good for 1.25 a per phase.

Or do you recomend the 83 oz system from hobbycnc.com?

Way to many choices.

Lots of guys use fanfold foam as a substitute for balsa these days. Have a look at the foamies section. Also coroplast, which is a tough coragated plastic.

Eric

www.e-zflight.com

DICKEYBIRD · Oct 12, 2002, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crankorgan
Dickeybird,
Even if your machine is not perfect, I bet you learned alot! I stayed away from drawslides. Lots of people mention them. I went with roller blade bearings. Cranky

You bet I did! What an experience. The MaxNC .dxf/G-Code conversion utility was all I had for 3 yrs. It WILL NOT accept anything but true blue ACAD files. I draft in TurboCAD....I had to import a T/CAD .dwg into a borrowed copy of ACAD (YUCHH!!) save each part out as a joined polyline .dxf, convert each file individually and then merge them together in a word processor to get a cutting file with 7 or 8 parts cut in the same run. Then I found Ace Converter...does it all in one step! For FREE!

Next machine will definitely have roller blade brgs. as you suggest but for now, I'm cutting some good parts to go in my planes.

crankorgan · Oct 12, 2002, 03:01 PM

Balsaman,
Alway check with the guys you are buying from. Then
if there is a problem you can get your money back. Both Dave and Russ are honest guys. 1/2-10 rod, sounds like over kill for cutting balsa. I have no experence with threaded rod that thick or the torq needed to move the threaded rod. I hope you are going to be cutting other things.
The reason I use 1/4-20 rod is. It's cheap, you can find cheap qualty rod and replace it later with better. It gives you lots of power using small motors. And the payoff of being able to tap and make your own drive nuts. There is almost no backlash at all when you use a 1/2' thick pice of nylon-Delrin or cutting block. As the thread gets coarser the nut can get sloppier. Then you have to spring for antibacklash nuts Do you own a 1/2-10 tap?

Cranky

crankorgan · Oct 12, 2002, 03:13 PM

DickeyBird,
I used the free version of Turbocad from the internet. I
then found a version of it for $29 at Staples. So I bought it. I use
an old version of Kcam to convert to GCode. Converts the DXF to
GCode. Lets me see where my part is going to be based on the size of the bed. I can also do offsets in KCam. There is also a Find and Replace. I use this when moving a GCode to a new machine. The new version of Kcam stops working after 30 days.

What cutting bits do you use? I use four flute 1/32 ToughCarb.

Cranky

DICKEYBIRD · Oct 12, 2002, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crankorgan
DickeyBird, What cutting bits do you use? I use four flute 1/32 ToughCarb.

Cranky

I use 1/16" 2 flute carbide router bits from Eagle America (Although they measure .055" od!) I don't have tool dia. offsets in the MaxNC control software so I have to draw in all the offsets myself...hehe, good for the soul! Been using the same bit now for 3 yrs.! (Knock on wood!) I use 1/8" 2 flute bits for ply.

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Oct 12, 2002, 01:16 PM	#46
crankorgan Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 569	uscra122, I use hardware store parts in most cases. If you find a plotter, you can use it to draw the parts on the balsa. Then you can cut them out. A plotter has problems just moving the pen!DXF files can be printed to a plotter as a PLT file. Most of the Windows versions won't let plotters work. This is why I combined CNC machines and Plotters in my designs. There are lots of ideas kicking around. I am at the point now I can start helping people. I got in over my head there for awhile. Those 16 hour days are killers! I spent seven days a week for two years designing machine. I didn't even know if there was a market. I liked RC when I was active. I figured there must be a few soles out there. I got laughed at by the Bridgeport guys. I hear Bridgeport closed up! Maybe they should have produced simple machines to cut out RC parts. Cranky

Oct 12, 2002, 01:28 PM	#47
jbourke Administrator Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Corvallis, Oregon, United States Posts: 4,420	Cranky, I'm glad to see you here! I enjoyed browsing your website a couple of weeks ago. This thread is really interesting because I've been looking into making my own CNC machine for a couple of weeks now. I created "The Workshop" forum to give me a place to post some threads on my experience. Coincidentally, I was planning to contact you and Zoltar and a few others to see if you guys would be intersted in talking about CNC in this new forum. In fact, I'll just move this thread to get things started. This is a really exciting new direction for me in the hobby. I can't wait to get my first CNC machine set-up. Jim

Oct 12, 2002, 01:36 PM	#48
balsaman It's just PLANE silly! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Ontario Posts: 915	Cranky, I have a question. Will the 50 oz. steppers be sufficient to cut heavier woods than balsa? I may want to cut mdf, etc. in the future and only want to build once. I have seen 80 and 100 oz motors out there. Should i splurge on the heavier drive board and larger motors or is it not necessary. I plan on using a rotozip or small router for the cut motor. I don't want to cut at 2-3 inches per minute. Eric www.e-zflight.com

Oct 12, 2002, 01:55 PM	#50
uscra112 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Mid-Michigan Posts: 2,178	Cranky - Just as I guessed - plotters can barely get out of their own way. And Windows plotter-drivers are all keyed to the applications they sevice, not to plain old ASCII files like DOS drivers were. What with the software now on the Web for a couple'a Benjis that'll run G-codes, you hardly need to fuss with using plotter software anyway. Have you had results using plain old threaded rod for leadscrews? For the accuracy we need, that should work fine, and they'd be so cheap that if they wear out you just replace 'em. Y'know, what we need is somebody testing and reporting on kits that have the stepper motors, controllers, cabling, and software all bundled for us to install on a structure we built ourselves. There's any number of vendors on the Web, but who knows who's got the right goods at the right price, and who doesn't? I mean, I was IN the machine tool business for years, but I myself am in the dark about these vendors. A nice website doesn't guarantee the goods. jbourke - I think you might be heading in that direction, yes?

Oct 12, 2002, 02:02 PM	#51
crankorgan Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 569	Balsaman, 50oz motors into a 1/4-20 threaded rod gives you 100 to 250 pounds of force. Torq goes down the faster you run the motor. I would rather own a whole machine than just a great motor system. With all hobbies, you should work your way up. That's how you learn. A friend of mine built a $800 RC plane rather than buy a trainer. He was afraid to fly it! The last I heard it was locked in the trunk of an old car in his garage. He kid got a hold of the plane. Now parts are missing. People don't like starting on the bottom. The funny thing is you pickup so much more. Sometimes you even come up with a new idea! Hey! is anyone using a flatbed printer to print layouts right on the balsa? and is there a synthetic material that replaces balsa. Some kind of plastic? Cranky

Oct 12, 2002, 02:05 PM	#52
uscra112 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Mid-Michigan Posts: 2,178	jbourke - If you're going to "move this thread" - how do I make sure I can still find it? Gottsta run - back on Monday.

Oct 12, 2002, 02:07 PM	#53
crankorgan Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 569	uscra112, HobbyCNC has complete motor systems cheap. I bought my first motors there. Lots of stuff on Ebay. I warn people about spinning the motors first. Just like RC, once you spin the motor, the building seems to stop. Motors are the easy part! Cranky

Oct 12, 2002, 02:16 PM	#54
crankorgan Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 569	Dickeybird, Even if your machine is not perfect, I bet you learned alot! I stayed away from drawslides. Lots of people mention them. I went with roller blade bearings. They have dust caps and you can buy them at most sports stores. I bought the $32 ones then I bought the $16 ones. The cheaper ones are just as good. Rollerblade bearings are made to be around dust. My machines also use the guide and way methods like a milling machine uses. These are also easy to keep clean. Threaded rod works great with a nylon,Delrin,Plastic or a nut made out of a chunk of white plastic (UMB?)cutting board. Cranky

Oct 12, 2002, 02:19 PM	#55
crankorgan Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 569	Hi, If we move let me know.....I tend to talk to myself as it is! Cranky

Oct 12, 2002, 02:43 PM	#56
balsaman It's just PLANE silly! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Ontario Posts: 915	Cranky, Thanks for all the help! I am using 1/2"-10 acme threaded rod. If you say 20 pitch = 100 lbs, then my 10 pitch should be around 50 lbs. That's quite a bit. I think I will get this kit from stepperworld.com then: http://209.41.165.153/stepper/sp3HT.htm with the FET3 upgrade for more current. Or should I forget the upgrade? the sp3 is good for 1.25 a per phase. Or do you recomend the 83 oz system from hobbycnc.com? Way to many choices. Lots of guys use fanfold foam as a substitute for balsa these days. Have a look at the foamies section. Also coroplast, which is a tough coragated plastic. Eric www.e-zflight.com

Oct 12, 2002, 03:01 PM	#58
crankorgan Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 569	Balsaman, Alway check with the guys you are buying from. Then if there is a problem you can get your money back. Both Dave and Russ are honest guys. 1/2-10 rod, sounds like over kill for cutting balsa. I have no experence with threaded rod that thick or the torq needed to move the threaded rod. I hope you are going to be cutting other things. The reason I use 1/4-20 rod is. It's cheap, you can find cheap qualty rod and replace it later with better. It gives you lots of power using small motors. And the payoff of being able to tap and make your own drive nuts. There is almost no backlash at all when you use a 1/2' thick pice of nylon-Delrin or cutting block. As the thread gets coarser the nut can get sloppier. Then you have to spring for antibacklash nuts Do you own a 1/2-10 tap? Cranky

Oct 12, 2002, 03:13 PM	#59
crankorgan Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 569	DickeyBird, I used the free version of Turbocad from the internet. I then found a version of it for $29 at Staples. So I bought it. I use an old version of Kcam to convert to GCode. Converts the DXF to GCode. Lets me see where my part is going to be based on the size of the bed. I can also do offsets in KCam. There is also a Find and Replace. I use this when moving a GCode to a new machine. The new version of Kcam stops working after 30 days. What cutting bits do you use? I use four flute 1/32 ToughCarb. Cranky