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Old Jan 16, 2007, 02:27 PM
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Hurst Bowers designs build

This Winter's project is to build several models designed by the late Hurst Bowers, modeler extraordinaire and all-around grand gentleman. There are many I'd like to build, but I had to put some sort of limit on my ambition so I picked out my favorite seven and had parts laser-cut for each of them:

Buhl Sport Airsedan (34-5/8" span, April? or May? 1964 Aeromodeller magazine)
Kinner Sportster (39" span, Flyline kit design)
Farman Moustique (39-1/8" span, Flyline kit design)
Lincoln Sport (30" span, June 1975 Flying Models magazine)
Fairchild 51 (44" span, July 1972 Model Builder magazine)
Stearman C-3B (35" span, Flyline kit design)
Great Lakes Trainer (40" span, Flyline kit design)

(I keep a list of all his designs at http://webpages.charter.net/plumpe/hurstbowersplans.htm )

They'll all get RC and I'll drive them with electric outrunners except for the Great Lakes, which will get an OS .20 4-stroke. BTW, I've little experience with electric motivation and am open to suggestions.

I've got the lasercut parts in hand and have cut and shaped the strip stock I'll need for all seven, but there's no way I'll get them all built this winter because I'm notably slow. So I'm starting on just the first three and we'll see how far I get down the list.

Tip laminations are drying as I write this and the first to find the workbench is the Buhl Sport. It's first because Kiwi got me interested and I saw and fondled the full-scale in Minneapolis recently. The fuselage sides have 3 distinct breaks, but instead of building each side in one piece, then sawing and regluing at each juncture, I'm building the sides in 4 pieces each with scarf joints, then I'll join them in 3D. Hmmm, wonder if that's why I'm so slow?

- Dave Plumpe
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Old Jan 16, 2007, 02:35 PM
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Dave

I have been eyeing his TravelAir 6000 for rc. The Wallace Touraplane is another of my favorites. Don Srull just redid Hurst's SPAD 62 (somewhere on this forum). You are right about the gentleman part--Hurst was the quintessential Southern gentleman and a great friend. Here are a few photos of him taken not too long before he passed on.

Pat
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Old Jan 16, 2007, 03:01 PM
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Hi Pat, great to hear from you!

I suppose the Travel Air 6000 you're thinking about is the Flyline kit. I haven't put that on my list of Hurst's designs because the kit plans ascribe that design to his partner, Herb Clukey.

I don't know of any designs of Hurst's for a Wallace Touroplane or SPAD 62. I'd really appreciate any info you might have or be able to come up with so I can add them to my list.

-Dave
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Old Jan 16, 2007, 03:29 PM
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Dave

The Wallace Touroplane was manufactured by American Eagle. It was published in Max Fax. Check your list.

The SPAD must have been one of Hurst's "French Period" planes. Don't know if he designed it, but he did build it.

Pat
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Old Jan 16, 2007, 04:11 PM
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ahhh soooo on the Wallace Touroplane, and thanks for the photos, Pat. Some are new to me.
-Dave
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Old Jan 16, 2007, 09:19 PM
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I'll be curious to see your builds. I've got a couple of Hurst's plans scaled to about 26-28" for LPS that are on my someday pile. You've got a pretty heavy list there yourself. More than I could do in a winter even if I were retired.
bill
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 08:41 AM
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Dave,

Who did all drawings for the laser cutting?

Are there any commercial short kits of the designs?

Istvan
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 09:44 AM
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Bill-
I fly mostly larger glow models off a grass ultralight field, so tend to want spans of 36" or more. I'd like to see how you handle the smaller sizes, tho'. I have one of the LPS motors to replace a VL-50D on my 36" 9oz Macchi M-33, but haven't found a round tuit yet.

Istvan-
I did the drawings for lasercutting using AutoCAD 12. Some of Hurst's plans I've redone in CAD, so it's simple to make lasercutting layouts for those. For other plans I redraw pertinent portions in CAD so I can compare formers & ribs with the appropriate plan views and make adjustments if necessary. That doesn't always guarantee they'll fit perfectly, but does help a lot. For instance, I've noticed a former near the nose on the Buhl is a bit too large and another too small - easier to see when you have the parts in hand.

I don't know of any short kits, or I wouldn't have gone to all the trouble myself. Laser cutting is cheap compared with postage so while I was at it I had 2 sets of all the lasercut sheets made in case I destroy a wing or something. Getting more done would be easy, and if there's a lot of interest we could talk about it, but I don't yet know if there are any serious problems with my layouts.

The Buhl Sport fuselage is going together now. Note the hair clips used as clamps to hold the scarf joints while the glue dries. Hard to find cheap clamps that won't crush the structure!

-Dave
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPlumpe
Bill-
I fly mostly larger glow models off a grass ultralight field, so tend to want spans of 36" or more. I'd like to see how you handle the smaller sizes, tho'. I have one of the LPS motors to replace a VL-50D on my 36" 9oz Macchi M-33, but haven't found a round tuit yet.
-Dave
Dave,
Did you mean the IPS not LPS?? I'm doing my first LPS WWI bipe now, SE5a at 24". Weight is around 4 1/2 oz. Thrust will be around 90gms.
bill
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by scrubs
Dave,
Did you mean the IPS not LPS?? I'm doing my first LPS WWI bipe now, SE5a at 24". Weight is around 4 1/2 oz. Thrust will be around 90gms.
bill
Bill-
Is your 4.5oz ready to fly or without motor, battery, etc? If it's RTF, that's over 3oz static thrust for a 4.5 oz airplane. Should nearly hover, shouldn't it? BTW, your SE5 likely has about 215 sq.in. area - same as my Macchi, but a bit more drag. Gee, and I thought I worked real hard to keep my RTF down to 9oz!

My Macchi M-33 seaplane has been flying off the water nicely with an old VL-50D, which purportedly gives 98gm thrust on 6Vx2.34A=14Watts with the 7.25x4.5 P-1 prop. The Macchi can take up to an 8" prop and GWS says their LPS "A" version can produce 102gm on 7.2Vx1.95A=14W with their 8x4.3 prop or 110gm on 7.2Vx2.44A=17.6W with the 8x6 prop. Not quite like the VL-50D, but pretty close. Of course, that's needed only for takeoff. Also, I admit to having an IPS-A on the shelf as backup.
-Dave
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 02:28 PM
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Dave--please post a picture of your Macchi! This thread could really get me excited. The Touraplane is a nifty little guy--My dad flew one of them back around 1930--he also owned a couple of American Eagles (OX-5 powered versions). I have a neat photo of the touraplane that I will post--couple of "bathing beauties" in a publicity shot of the real one. I like the idea of enlarging Hurst's plans to the 36-48 size. Perfect.

Pat
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 02:51 PM
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Dave

Here is Don Srull's conversion of Hurst's Lincoln--it was built for coconut rubber power originally and is a great slow flyer for electric.
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPlumpe
Bill-
Is your 4.5oz ready to fly or without motor, battery, etc? If it's RTF, that's over 3oz static thrust for a 4.5 oz airplane. Should nearly hover, shouldn't it? BTW, your SE5 likely has about 215 sq.in. area - same as my Macchi, but a bit more drag. Gee, and I thought I worked real hard to keep my RTF down to 9oz!

My Macchi M-33 seaplane has been flying off the water nicely with an old VL-50D, which purportedly gives 98gm thrust on 6Vx2.34A=14Watts with the 7.25x4.5 P-1 prop. The Macchi can take up to an 8" prop and GWS says their LPS "A" version can produce 102gm on 7.2Vx1.95A=14W with their 8x4.3 prop or 110gm on 7.2Vx2.44A=17.6W with the 8x6 prop. Not quite like the VL-50D, but pretty close. Of course, that's needed only for takeoff. Also, I admit to having an IPS-A on the shelf as backup.
-Dave
That's ready to fly. It's built from a short kit that Dave at DPCM models made up for me. You'll have to excuse me here since I've only been doing R/C for a couple of years. I have a Stevens Aero Diddle Rod with the short can 6:21 LPS. IIRC the thrust is around 50gms and the plane is 3.2 oz. So with the SE5a I have about 1/3 more weight and nearly double the thrust. A lot draggier tho. Actually all I'm looking for is a nice sedate flyer.
bill
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 03:20 PM
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Pat-

Here's my Macchi. This was Italy's (losing) entry in the 1925 Schneider Trophy race. My model has laminated ribs, formers & some longerons. VL-50D motor, 2x700mah LiPoly, 4-chans. Litespan covering & acrylic paints. Started design 12/99, first flown 7/06 - I'm slow. Not a Hurst Bowers design, but what the heck.

-Dave
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 11:28 PM
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What a beauty-- you should bring it over to the Kudzu waterfly at Dave Rees' place in Goldsboro, NC some time. That is a real piece of work, Dave.
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