Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Oct 21, 2007, 06:30 AM
Senior to who? Member
crossup's Avatar
Annapolis, Maryland USA
Joined Feb 2001
2,450 Posts
Aiden,
I think the main reason in these planes for counterbalanced ailerons is to help reduce the aileron torsional load, its a two-fer..you get more aileron movement and more area
crossup is offline Find More Posts by crossup
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Oct 21, 2007, 07:31 AM
Registered User
Aio_1's Avatar
Ireland, Kildare, Leixlip
Joined May 2002
6,441 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by crossup
Aiden,
I think the main reason in these planes for counterbalanced ailerons is to help reduce the aileron torsional load, its a two-fer..you get more aileron movement and more area
Agreed. I wanted to be sure I'd have enough aileron power and any torsion along the ailerons giving less movement at the tips reduces their effectivness. However with the ailerons as designed they are powerful enough for my liking whether the ailerons are twisting or not so counterbalances and/or larger ailerons are not necessary.

Aidan
Aio_1 is offline Find More Posts by Aio_1
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 21, 2007, 08:47 AM
Registered User
Aio_1's Avatar
Ireland, Kildare, Leixlip
Joined May 2002
6,441 Posts
Pictures

Here's some static pictures.

Sorry there's no video or in flight pics. I brought the camera with me yesterday but didn't bring a charged battery.
Aio_1 is offline Find More Posts by Aio_1
Last edited by Aio_1; Oct 21, 2007 at 09:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 22, 2007, 06:52 PM
Registered User
Aio_1's Avatar
Ireland, Kildare, Leixlip
Joined May 2002
6,441 Posts
Index 2 Plan

The attached Plan is formated for a single A0 sheet.
I'll try and find time to do a tiled version for A4 tomorrow.
Let me know if you've any problems.
If you'd like the plan in a different format let me know and I'll see what I can do.

Aidan
Aio_1 is offline Find More Posts by Aio_1
Last edited by Aio_1; Oct 22, 2007 at 07:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 23, 2007, 07:25 AM
Registered User
Joined Jan 2005
34 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aio_1
I'll try and find time to do a tiled version for A4 tomorrow.
Aidan
Cool look forward to the build
G Church is offline Find More Posts by G Church
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2007, 07:17 AM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2003
98 Posts
Aio 1 - congrats on your Index II design! It looks like you are installing a strip of depron to the top and bottom of the LE of the wing. Are you doing this for strength, or to replace a flat CF strip in that area? What is the dia. of the rods you are using for stiffness on the bottom of the plane? And last but not least, my "rookie" question of the day - what is the best foam-safe CA to use? I have some BSmith foam-safe CA that gells when I apply accelerator, but doesn't really kick-off like I would hope for. Hopefully there is a better foam safe CA product.

Thanks
Jim W.
Jim Woodward is offline Find More Posts by Jim Woodward
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2007, 08:54 AM
Aerodynamically challenged
3Deranged's Avatar
3D World, Florida
Joined May 2005
3,179 Posts
Zap foam safe is one the best I've used so far. Or ZAP-A-GAP is good too. PT-15 ZIP spray kicker accelerator is great stuff. Just need a tiny mist of it to kick off the Zap. Try it you'll like it! Comes in a silver aerosol can.
3Deranged is offline Find More Posts by 3Deranged
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2007, 10:03 AM
Registered User
Aio_1's Avatar
Ireland, Kildare, Leixlip
Joined May 2002
6,441 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Woodward
Aio 1 - congrats on your Index II design! It looks like you are installing a strip of depron to the top and bottom of the LE of the wing. Are you doing this for strength, or to replace a flat CF strip in that area?
Hi Jim,

There's a couple of reasons for the strips. the following is in no particular order.
It locally stiffens the LE. There's less tendency fo the LE to flutter or bend due to flight loads. Also depron doesn't always stay straight over time. If you look along the LE of a single thickness wing some time after you built it there tends to be some ripples. Even when the wing is well braced bends tend to develop between the supports. (This doesn't necessarily have a noticable effect on flight).
It makes the plane a lot more resistant to hanger rash and handling damage which usually occurs at the LE more than anywhere else.
There's also an argument for turbulating the airflow over the wing to make the flight characteristics more predictable. Since these planes fly at very low Re. numbers there's a good chance of attached laminar flow which separates sooner than turbulent flow as you change the conditions. Efficiency isn't really important on these planes so it should make sense to avoid laminar flow. that's the theory. I haven't done enough work on it to be sure it holds water!

I tried a similar strip on my original Index design and rounded it off to a smooth LE profile. I expected this to help with a delayed and more gradual stall (not that these planes have a noticable stall so much as a significant increase of drag). The Index 1 did have really nice high angle of attack characteristics but i can't be sure this was the cause.
For the Index 2 I left the LE square so far and it flies great. My father also built one but rounded the LE. I haven't decided if there's a significant difference yet.

Quote:
What is the dia. of the rods you are using for stiffness on the bottom of the plane?
It's all 1mm diameter on the original (except for the landing gear which is 1.5mm) but you could probably get away with 0.7 or even less for the fuselage bracing. Since the total carbon in the tail weighs only a gram or so I stayed with 1mm all around.
Quote:
And last but not least, my "rookie" question of the day - what is the best foam-safe CA to use? I have some BSmith foam-safe CA that gells when I apply accelerator, but doesn't really kick-off like I would hope for. Hopefully there is a better foam safe CA product.

Thanks
Jim W.
I'm still auditioning new candidates. I've been using a German one which I can't remember the name of but it's not as consistent as I'd like. Sometimes cures very quickly with activator and sometimes doesn't. I think I'll try ZAP next.

Aidan
Aio_1 is offline Find More Posts by Aio_1
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 23, 2007, 07:34 PM
Registered User
Hexosex's Avatar
Cornwall, UK
Joined Oct 2006
1,089 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Woodward
Aio 1 - congrats on your Index II design! It looks like you are installing a strip of depron to the top and bottom of the LE of the wing. Are you doing this for strength, or to replace a flat CF strip in that area? What is the dia. of the rods you are using for stiffness on the bottom of the plane? And last but not least, my "rookie" question of the day - what is the best foam-safe CA to use? I have some BSmith foam-safe CA that gells when I apply accelerator, but doesn't really kick-off like I would hope for. Hopefully there is a better foam safe CA product.

Thanks
Jim W.
This is the best glue you can find on the market in my honest opinion, i have been making depron planes now for over a year with this stuff and its the best you can think of. Spray one bit with the kicker, apply ca to the other bit and within seconds of joining its cured with no side effects!

http://www.overlander.co.uk/products...id=14&pid=1240
Hexosex is offline Find More Posts by Hexosex
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 24, 2007, 07:55 AM
Registered User
Hexosex's Avatar
Cornwall, UK
Joined Oct 2006
1,089 Posts
I've got some parts cut out! I will be trussing it up with 1mm carbon rods as per the plan.

I've only got 6.6g servos and 10g esc with a 24g motor for this bird at the moment but want to get some lighter gear. Can anyone suggest some good components from United hobbies? Would their 10g motor prop hang etc... well with a 300mah 2S?
Hexosex is offline Find More Posts by Hexosex
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 24, 2007, 10:13 AM
Registered User
Hexosex's Avatar
Cornwall, UK
Joined Oct 2006
1,089 Posts
Chassis is 45g, not bad. I'm going to use line trussing on the fuz to stop tail twist.

AUW is predicted as:

Chassis: 45g
motor 26g
prop & adapter 5g
esc 12g
wing servo 6.6g
rud servo 4.3g
elev servo 4.3g
rx 5.7g
lipo 20g
other 3g
total 131.9g

NOT BAD if all goes to plan!

its a pretty bird Aio_1! good job!
Hexosex is offline Find More Posts by Hexosex
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 24, 2007, 11:39 AM
Registered User
Aio_1's Avatar
Ireland, Kildare, Leixlip
Joined May 2002
6,441 Posts
Looks good Hex!

Are you going to round off the wing and tail tips or go with the "chamfer" look?

The gear you're planning to use will work fine but it is just a little heavy and would probably suit a slightly larger version better. Still,if you can manage 131g I think it will fly well.
The motor you're using is double the weight of the MacroRex used in the two prototypes, so you may want to plan for the RX, servos and cells to be further back than mine to get the CG correct. The CG on the plan is just a starting position. I haven't decided exactly where I like it best yet but that's a good starting point and you can tweak it from there for your own preferences.

I've cut out the depron for another Index 2 this time scaled up to 810mm. I'm planning to paint and assemble it tonight and put the radio and motor in tomorrow morning. I'm going flying tomorrow afternoon and hope to have it finished, if I'm lucky.
This one is going to get the following:

15g Hacker A10-15s motor
7g Hacker X-5 ESC
5g SD100 servos (Dymond 4.7 by another name)
4.5g Robot birds 4ch RX (Corona 4ch by another name?)
21g Flightpower Evo-Lite 2s 350mAh

I'm aiming for 135g AUW.
I'll post the larger plan when I get the chance and perhaps some pictures of the newest plane.

I look forward to seeing how you get on with the Index Hex and I hope you like the performance! Best of luck with the rest of the build.

Aidan

Aidan
Aio_1 is offline Find More Posts by Aio_1
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 24, 2007, 12:12 PM
Foam Rules, Gravity Sucks
Bravedan's Avatar
Bromley, England
Joined Nov 2006
381 Posts
Like the look of this plane, but is a Tiled plan available please???
Bravedan is offline Find More Posts by Bravedan
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 24, 2007, 12:29 PM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2005
52 Posts
Here's Another Index 2

This is the first of several Index 2's I plan to build. On the first one, I've used Stren braided line for bracing and the pull-pull elevator & rudder. AUW without LG is 112g. The carbon L.E. tapers from .020" at the root to .007" at the tip and adds .9g including glue. The foam is Cellfoam 88.
It will be interesting to see how the flying characteristics are improved when the bracing and controls are changed to foam and carbon.
The CG ended up according to plan with the battery mounted between the wing L.E. and motor.

Hacker A10-15s/X5
TP 350
Dymond 4.7
Berg 4L
towgadget is offline Find More Posts by towgadget
Last edited by towgadget; Nov 27, 2007 at 10:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 24, 2007, 02:50 PM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2007
61 Posts
I just finished mine last night. Came out to 6oz. RTF. No landinggear bnecause im out of heavier carbon.
Its all white so theres nothing really to see.
park 250
bluebirds
polyquest 400
yakwrecker is offline Find More Posts by yakwrecker
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools