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Old Jan 06, 2007, 10:39 PM
Team JR
Doug Cronkhite's Avatar
San Diego
Joined Feb 2002
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My new F3P work-in-progress

Just thought I'd share my work-in-progress F3P design. I'm calling it the Epee for now but that could change.

Span - 92cm
Length - 94cm
Area - Roughly 285"

Some of the design ideas I'm using here is combining inward angled SFG's with aileron tip plates. I'm hoping that with the two I'll get a high pressure, turbulent airflow over the tips of the ailerons to give me both drag, and increased effectiveness.

Planned hardware is:

Eflight Park 250
CC Phoenix 10a
Dymond 4.7g servos
Berg 4L

Batteries are something I haven't messed with at this size so I'm looking for info if people can help out..

I'm going to start cutting depron for this in 2 weeks when I get a cast off my right hand.. I'll post up pics and results once I get one built and flying.

-Doug
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Last edited by Doug Cronkhite; Jun 03, 2014 at 10:56 PM.
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Old Jan 06, 2007, 10:54 PM
2^p - 1
signflyer's Avatar
United States, MO, Springfield
Joined Feb 2003
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Looks good!
One thing you may want to reconsider is the angled rudder hinge line--this will cause pitch coupling with rudder input.

Keep us posted.
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Old Jan 06, 2007, 10:57 PM
Team JR
Doug Cronkhite's Avatar
San Diego
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Yeah.. that's actually on purpose. I'll be adjusting that to get perfect knife edge without mixing if possible.
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Old Jan 07, 2007, 12:26 AM
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crossup's Avatar
Annapolis, Maryland USA
Joined Feb 2001
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I've been thinking thats the answer too...one of these days I''m gonna make the entire rudder/stab hingeline "bolt" on with adjustment slots to figure out real world, what the exact relationships are
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Old Jan 07, 2007, 10:03 AM
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Ireland, Kildare, Leixlip
Joined May 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcronkhite
...Batteries are something I haven't messed with at this size so I'm looking for info if people can help out...
I'm currently using both TP480 (~12g per cell) and Hyperion VX300 litestorm (~9g per cell) cells and despite the TP480s being a bigger and much more expensive cell I find the Hyperions perform far far better at the typical current we use. The TP480 has a hard time above 10C with the voltage sagging badly above 5A. The Hyperion cells on the other hand seem to manage 6A quite happily and based on the voltage drop I'd say they can probably manage another amp or two if necessary (spec is 6A continuois and 9A burst).

My Index design is about the size of your proposed design and weighs ~185g using a 2s pack of the VX300 cells and a Flyware MicroREX220/6/1600 with a 9x3.8 prop. If flies great on this setup drawing about 6A at full throttle and flights are long enough on the 300mAh cells. There may not be quite enough power for 3D but there's more than enough for pattern style flying - hover is at a little over 1/2 throttle and there's sufficient airspeed for level flight at maybe 1/3rd or less.

Will you be using 2s or 3s?
I'd pick either the Hyperion 300 cells or 400mAh cells for 2s and I'd definitely pick Hyperion 300 cells for 3s. I haven't tried the 400mAh Hyperion litestorm cells yet but I have some on order and I'll chime in when I get a chance to test them.
There are a few other cell types getting good reviews recently. I think one of them is Bad dogz 360 or something and also Polyquest Twenty 300mAh cells which I think might be the same as the Hyperion ones.

Have a look at the F3P equipment weights sticky thread for some alternatives.

Hyperion cells are very widely available. I get mine either from www.Allerc.com or www.aircraft-world.com.


Aidan
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Old Jan 07, 2007, 10:07 AM
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matchlessaero's Avatar
Tennessee/Mid-South US
Joined Mar 2002
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Quote:
One thing you may want to reconsider is the angled rudder hinge line--this will cause pitch coupling with rudder input.
I was thinking the same thing, and D, if you plan to adjust that to get perfect zero coupling, you should probably start from zero and work to the appropriate angle.....
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Old Jan 07, 2007, 08:03 PM
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Chandler, AZ
Joined Mar 2002
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Ive been using lots of the Hyperion 300 and 400's. They're rated for 3C Charge rates. Charging up packs in 20 minutes and flying for 6+ minutes on one pack is pretty cool, plus having the manufacturer say its cool is a bonus. No heavy balancing taps either.

Josh
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Old Jan 07, 2007, 08:54 PM
Watts is where its at!
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United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Oct 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enigmabomb
Ive been using lots of the Hyperion 300 and 400's. They're rated for 3C Charge rates. Charging up packs in 20 minutes and flying for 6+ minutes on one pack is pretty cool, plus having the manufacturer say its cool is a bonus. No heavy balancing taps either.

Josh
I have 4 of the Hyperion 300mah 2S packs now. Where does it say you can charge them at 3C??
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Old Jan 07, 2007, 09:21 PM
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Chandler, AZ
Joined Mar 2002
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Page 5 of the new hyperion EOS 12i Charger.

http://www.allerc.com/Pictures/EOS1210i-MAN-ENG.pdf

I charge all my blue hyperion packs at 3C to 90% capacity. They're done in 19 minutes. The Terminal Capacity feature of the new Hyperion chargers is great.

Josh
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Old Jan 07, 2007, 09:22 PM
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Chandler, AZ
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P.S. I do a balancing charge every 3 cycles or so, but haven't found any cells out of balance yet, but since it doesnt take any longer, I figure what the hey.

Josh
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Old Jan 07, 2007, 09:40 PM
Watts is where its at!
racerxky's Avatar
United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Oct 2004
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Excellent!

I have a pair of the EOS 5i chargers (very nice chargers btw). I guess this advisory extends to them as well. Even 2C cuts the charge time in half. Cuts my charge time for 6 batts down from 3 hours to 1 and a half. I could probably fly 24 packs a day at that rate. This is Bad A$$
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Old Jan 07, 2007, 10:50 PM
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Chandler, AZ
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If you do a 2c to 100% it won't really save you that much time, so on chargers that dont have the cool TCS feature, I just charge at 2C and take them off after a half hour. That puts them at about 90~ percent charged.

Josh
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Old Jan 19, 2008, 05:53 PM
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Northern Ireland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enigmabomb
Page 5 of the new hyperion EOS 12i Charger.

http://www.allerc.com/Pictures/EOS1210i-MAN-ENG.pdf

I charge all my blue hyperion packs at 3C to 90% capacity. They're done in 19 minutes. The Terminal Capacity feature of the new Hyperion chargers is great.

Josh
Quite a few of the latest cells can handle 2c+ charges without bursting into flames but at a cost. Cell retention suffers a great deal and not all companies are willing to state as such. I personally charge at 0.1A-0.2A over 1C rating to give me as close to 1hr charge as possible. Charging much more over 1C will in most cases half (or worse) the lifespan of the cells.
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Old Jan 19, 2008, 09:16 PM
TeamZiering
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Chandler, AZ
Joined Mar 2002
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The hyperion data shows no appreciable loss. Not sure what you're looking at?

The only time I want to charge at 3c is when I'm at the field anyway.
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