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Old Dec 30, 2006, 06:15 PM
Homo Modelicus
BaZsiX's Avatar
Hungary
Joined Jan 2005
686 Posts
Build Log
Nieuport 11 Bébé (Peter Rake designed - Manzano Laser Kit)



While I'm finishing the Nieuport IV, I'm preparing myself for the next project. This will be the Nieuport 11, le petit bébé Charles took me an offer few weeks ago. He offered that he gave me a kit for test of the kit parts. It was a great offer for me and I could nor reject it So the kit has arrived two days (on friday) before Christmas, so it was one of my biggest gift. Thanks Charles!
The model was designed for Speed 400 engine. I have got an "old" Pete designed plan (with mag), but this one is a little different from that. Patched The old one was designed for Graupner geared motor this one for Olympus geared. I never used Olympus gear before, so I will try it. I don't know the different between the two type of gear. Maybe nothing, only the size. The new plan has got some other modifications, but I will show those one during the building. The main airframe didn't changed only some parts. I always built these size of models with HS55 servos. But on the plan are small 4.3g servos Pete are those enough for this "big" bird? If yes I believe it!

Lets start the building!

Half year ago I have already planed that I will build this plane therefore I have purchased the Windsock Datafile book of the N.11. The book has arrived, but come an another project and I have forget the N.11... At last I'm going to use the book. While I'm turning the pages (is this correct???) and watching the b/w photos I planned that I will build this plane whit the authentic control mechanism instead the two wing servos. I plan that I will build a servo inside the fuselage and with control rods I can moving the ailerons. Only one problem left. The book doesn't contains any useable photos about this. I'm searching on the net, but nothing (or its avoid my notice). So is there anyone who has got useable draws, photos? Whithout them I could not design the mechanism. I have got some ideas about this, but I need some great photo.

Balázs
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Old Dec 30, 2006, 10:04 PM
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Norfolk, England
Joined Sep 2001
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Balazs,
Yes, the 4.3 servos should be up to the task in this model, but I really can't see any reason you couldn't use HS55 servos instead, since they appear to be what you have. However, for the aileron set up you intend, I'd suggest something a bit bigger. There's a lot of potential for binding in the torque rod set up of the original.

There's a drawing here http://mars.ark.com/~mdf/N_11d.html that gives some idea how the linkage goes. Personally, I think a servo in each wing is a better option.

The biggest difference between the Mini Olympus and Graupner gearboxes is the lack of off-set on the Mini Olympus one. So, either could be used but you'd have to adjust the position of the motor plate to suit the Graupner - and open up the slot to the correct size. The Graupner is the better gearbox, but seems harder to find in the US than the Mini Olympus. Or at least I think that's the case.

Pete
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Old Dec 31, 2006, 04:29 AM
Homo Modelicus
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Hungary
Joined Jan 2005
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Pete,

Servos:
As I wrote I beleive you about the servos. I can buy only this one in my country: AS-43 RCM 4,3g

You can use with only 4 cells (4,8V)! ???

Input voltage: 4,8V
Pull power: 0,7kg/cm
Turn speed: 0,12s/60°
Size: 20x24x8mm
Weight: 4,3g

I can use with only 4,8 Volt??? I have used these servos in my Nieuport IV. I will use there a 7.2V two cells Lipo battery. Each cell is 3.7V. The 4.8V is for one cell? I would like to use a three cells battery with 11.1V in my N.11. Maybe this is a stupid question, but I didn't noticed this attention on the webshop before...

So if I can use this small one I do not want to use HS55 servos because there are its space on the motor plate- two hole.

Motor:
I have to order both from the net. The Graupner 7.2V with 2.33:1 gear cost 23EUR = 5850HUF, the Mini Olympus 12.3GBP=4660HUF. The Olympus one is cheaper. Yes I know that I have to pay the P&P too. I can order Mini Olympus from the Sussex model centre. I hope I have to order this one: MINI OLYMPUS WITH ROCKET 400 MOTOR SMC-M-1091/1 (Mini Olympus ). I do not want to change / modify the airframe. So I will choose the Olympus one.

Thank you for the link. Very useful. I plan that I will use CF stuffs and mix them with piano wire. I will make a prototype before I modify your plan and the model. To copy the original mechanism I think not so difficult. I have to make some copy of the plan first.

Balázs
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Old Dec 31, 2006, 04:36 AM
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oooh,,the ROCKET motor is somewhere between a speed 400 6v and a race 4.8v..

and has a plastic endbell... be careful..

I tend to use MPjet gearboxes (from Fanfare) and 6v motors..but the mounting is COMPLETELY different. BUT the ratios are higher..peters modles tend to like a bigger prop for scale-ness.

I've got an old graupner 1.85:1 gearbox somewhere if you want it..used to have a 7.2v motor in it too..but that died - well a bolt fell in it actually and it siezed up, and I destroyed it getting it apart..
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Old Dec 31, 2006, 10:36 AM
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I have a Maxx gearbox I used in my Camel. Has gears for 2, 2.5 and 3:1. Noisy but it works. I'll send it off to you with a 7.2V and maybe a 6V sp400. I don't use them anymore and they're gathering dust.

Vint is right, the MPJet gearboxes are the best, but, I've had trouble with the long 'nose' on them. Makes balancing these short nose models tough.

charlie
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Old Dec 31, 2006, 11:25 AM
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3:1 is good..10x7 on 8 round cells.

I HATE the max-X but it does work OK.
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Old Dec 31, 2006, 11:42 AM
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There's a wonderful Flight Journal article on flying the Bebe here :

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...02/ai_n8887508

I've been putting together a Guillows Nieuport 11 this Christmas, pics here :

http://www.virtualaerodrome.com/imag...r_id=1&offset=

What size is this kit? I couldn't see it on Charlie's website.

Happy New Year everyone!

-James.
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Old Dec 31, 2006, 12:05 PM
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It's not on the site yet cause this is a prototype build. Once all the parts fits are confirmed then we'll put it up on the site.

Vint, I don't like those little boxes either, but, they work so well, and you get 3 gear ratios to play with. And, I do like gear noise

charlie
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Old Dec 31, 2006, 01:03 PM
Homo Modelicus
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Hey guys,

thank you, you have confused me But thanks for your help!

Anyway, I will order a Mini Olympus. I would like to try it. Some Aerodrome model was designed for this motor too, as I remember. But that is not clear how will I fix the motor onto the motor plate. To fix the Graupner gear is simply. On the next week oh, sorry in the next YEAR I will start the building.

Steve,
what does it mean: "endbell". I could not find in my dictionary.

And finally, I wish a Happy New Year for all of you!

Balázs
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Old Dec 31, 2006, 04:02 PM
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Norfolk, England
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Balazs,
Fitting the Mini Oly is even easier than the Graupner, although it fits in a similar manner. It has mounting lugs each side and you just screw it to the motor plate.

The motor endbell is the end part containing the brushes, but I'm not at all sure what motor Vintage is talking about, the Mini Oly is a 400 size gearbox, he appears to be talking about the Olympus belt drive and 540 size motor. However, he is correct the Rocket 400 does appear to have a plastic endbell. If you have a spare 7.2 volt Graupner motor, use that instead, it's straight replacement job.

Pete
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Old Dec 31, 2006, 04:22 PM
Homo Modelicus
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Pete,

I don't have any spare. So I have to order both. I have found the correct Olympus motor on the Sussex site? If I order a Graupner I have to made a new firewall and a motor plate. Hmmm, I'm not lazy, I like the new things and I want to test the parts what you designed and Charles cut out. As you said the most one who will build this modell will use an Olympus instead of a Graupner.

Balázs
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Old Jan 01, 2007, 04:53 AM
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Balazs,
Yes mate, the Mini Olympus and Rocket 400 should be fine.
I wasn't suggesting that you replace the entire gearbox unit with a Graupner one, just the motor with a 7.2 volt one so you can swing a bigger prop. Doing that doesn't affect the way it fits into the model at all. You just take off the fitted pinion (two grub screws), remove the motor (undo two more screws) and replace it with the higher voltage motor. I'm pretty sure it's a 6 volt motor fitted as standard and that might restrict your prop/battery combination.
A word of warning, the Mini Olympus pinion is plastic, so don't over tighten the grub screws. It is likely to distort the pinion and result in an interesting gearbox sound - as well as using power through the oval pinion.
They're reasonable little gearboxes for the price but are quite cheap.

Pete
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Old Jan 01, 2007, 05:48 AM
Homo Modelicus
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Pete,

thanks! Sorry, I misunderstand you.

I'm ordering the motor now. As I see on the photo that is a Rocket 400 7.2V DC motor. I hope that, they will send me the 7.2V motor instead of a 6V.

What type of 4.3g servos are you using? BA-TS, Cirrus, RCM, other?

Balázs
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Old Jan 01, 2007, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PETERRAKE
Balazs,
Fitting the Mini Oly is even easier than the Graupner, although it fits in a similar manner. It has mounting lugs each side and you just screw it to the motor plate.

The motor endbell is the end part containing the brushes, but I'm not at all sure what motor Vintage is talking about, the Mini Oly is a 400 size gearbox, he appears to be talking about the Olympus belt drive and 540 size motor. However, he is correct the Rocket 400 does appear to have a plastic endbell. If you have a spare 7.2 volt Graupner motor, use that instead, it's straight replacement job.

Pete

Yup. I was talking about the rocket 400 that is often sold with that gearbox Peter..its a weird motor..hotter than a speed 400 6v, but not as hot as a speed 400 race 4.8v.

Not sure what a rocket 7.2v is really..but I would mistrust it on principle..the gearbox is good enough all right.

Oh.. I looked up Sussex model centre's pages..no that motor is NOT right. That IS the high revving motor - its a sort of speed 400 5v in terms of relative KV. you need to go to 6 cells or less tio get that one into the frame.

Its hard to find the old speed 400 7.2v these days..but here is a deal..
http://hillcott-electronics.net/stor...products_id=34

Best man for gearboxes is John Swain

http://www.fanfare.f9.co.uk/gearbox.htm
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Old Jan 01, 2007, 06:45 AM
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Vintage,
Sorry mate, it was your reference to a speed 600 that threw me.
Knowing that about the motor, I can see why they suggest just an 8" prop. I'd definitely prefer to be able to use a 10x6 or something in that region, maybe even an 11x7.

Pete
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