|Sep 14, 2002, 06:48 PM|
Free plans are going away
Bob Clemens informed me that there may be a copyright problem with some of the plans the I have posted on my web site. They are mostly many years old. I don't have time to examine each one and as a result, I am removing all plans as soon as possible. I expect that by Tuesday they will be removed. I can't get to the computer that has the files until then. I thought that there was no problem but now that the the issue is up they are suspect. In this day of litigation, I can 't take the chance of a problem so off they all go..
|Sep 14, 2002, 11:31 PM|
Sad it is
Its like someone gets a freeware plan, from sources wherever, the person makes copies, charges other people ONLY the cost to make the copies, then someone else gripes that it is not legal, or right.
IMO, if the plan is (and has been) freely distributed, and available to all, and the designers name is on the plan, whats the gripe?
You cant think we dont have the ability to scan a plan in a magazine, when they say, for the full size plan, see page XXX to order it? Several of your plans came from there, just delete the ones that werent readily available to any modelers? I can see that Cleveland would be upset, but the old MAN plans are worth saving for humanity
Anyways, I can agree for, and against, but if its that bad, I strongly suggest NO ONE print plans in magazines, or scan them into images, to post on the internet, because if 10 plans are freely available at 10 sites, why cant 10 plans be available at one site?
I personally thank you for your efforts to compile these plans, and though I only use such plans for reference, I can say that even though I may never get the opportunity to build but one or two of the plans you offered to us all, I have all of them
I also think that if you have had all these plans for so long, without any legal hassles, maybe Bob Clemens got you abit paranoid? Worst case scenario is a kindly submitted `Cease and Desist' notice to you, from one of the plan designers!
You did say copyright problems with SOME of the plans, right? If they are originals, and do not say copyright, all you can get is a cease and desist notice, but again, Thank you!
|Sep 15, 2002, 12:10 AM|
Re: Sad it is
Electronic books have sorted this out fairly well. You should get permission from the author/creator in writing before distributing someone else's material. Especially in the litigious US.
|Sep 15, 2002, 07:17 AM|
Re: Re: Sad it is
As I see it, Kurt is not giving away copyrighted material, The person who accesses his site, browses, and downloads the material is.....
My only argument in the entire matter is that you can go to a LIBRARY, find almost any material you want, go to the copy machine, press a button, and take with you what you want. To me Kurt has (had) a LIBRARY!
|Sep 15, 2002, 08:42 AM|
Kurt, sad to see these plans go away. Great reference material. I used to have the entire set, although looks like theres more now than there used to be. I'll have to nab a fresh set before it goes down.
|Sep 15, 2002, 12:14 PM|
This is troubling, enough so that I've decided that there is too much legal murkiness for me to offer my finalized free plan of the Bristol F2b that I scaled up and modified. It really bums me that we do this for the benifit of others and love of modeling, yet there is always some louse-up that can make a hassle out of it.
I'm sorry for you Kurt. I've got a few of those plans and want to convert some of them someday. At least we have you and Peter Rake bringing out great plans and kits that can be purchased...
A wiser and sadder
|Sep 15, 2002, 12:18 PM|
|Sep 15, 2002, 12:23 PM|
Re: Re: Re: Sad it is
|Sep 15, 2002, 12:28 PM|
Here is the complete text from Mr. Clemens in response to my removing the plans.
To: "AerodromeRC Sales" <sales@AerodromeRC.com>
Subject: Copyright info
Thanks for the quick response.
First off, I am not a copyright policeman, nor am I an expert in
copyright law. I am a retired professional photographer who is concerned
about proper observance of copyright law. That is why I brought this
matter to your attention. I am also a dedicated aeromodeler, and have
observed that there is much misunderstanding among our community
regarding what plans can and cannot be offered freely on the Internet or
Copyrighted material, which includes anything from Flying Models and
authors such as Tim Bucher, is the property of those companies or
individuals and only they have the legal authority to control their use
and distribution. Peter Rake was in error when he told you they were
"OK," whatever that meant.
Take Tim Bucher, for instance. He wrote and published the book, "Stick
and Tissue Modeler's Album #1," several years ago. It contained a number
of free flight plans, including one you have on your list, a 16"
rubber-powered model of the Bristol Brownie. Mr. Bucher offered, and is
still offering (along with a sequel), this book for sale. I believe we
can both agree that he would not be terribly happy to have his sales
diminished by someone giving his plans given away for free on the
Internet. These plans are his intellectual property, and only he can
determine their usage. No one else has this right UNLESS they have
received written permission from Mr. Bucher to do so. The same applies
to any plan offered by a magazine, such as Flying Models or Model
Aviation. Perhaps other individuals or publishers have plans on your
list as well. If so, your free distribution of them is also a violation
of copyright law.
A plan is copyrighted automatically the moment it is drawn. This
copyright is the sole property of the creator of that plan until and if
he chooses to make other arrangements, such as with a magazine. No
registration is required, but can be done through the U.S. Copyright
Office to insure full restitution of lost income should the copyright be
Many older plans are indeed freely available on the Net and elsewhere.
In these cases, the copyright owner might be deceased, not care, or be
long out of business (Comet, Megow, Burd, Berkley, etc.). Or the
copyright itself may have expired. The old copyright law specified a
28-year initial period with an option to renew for another 28. Doubtless
copyrights for the now-classic plans from the 1930's, 40's, 50's, and
60's were never enforced or renewed. Things are different now. The
current law, which took effect as of January 1, 1978, has a coverage
period equal to the life of the creator plus 50 years.
I hope you will share this message with Mr. Rake.
"Bob Clemens" <email@example.com>
|Sep 15, 2002, 12:29 PM|
I doubt it, despite the fact that the plan was originally from the Plans Page and that they are offered as free for public use. But once you alter and use them just for yourself, I think you're fine, but when they become some sort of offer, even free, after your own modification...... I just don't know enough about where the public domain and private intellectual property begins and ends And it's not worth the bother of legal help to find out as I'm just offering it as a free plan, for others to use for their own personal use.
|Sep 15, 2002, 12:40 PM|
Re: Re: Re: Re: Sad it is
A newspaper takes audio and video of an event, as well as notes, so isn't all that information, the sole right of the person(s) or group that performed the action(s)??? Will I get paid, or be able to sue the media, because I did something that was televised, that everyone just had to see? If I didnt want anyone to see it, thats just TOO bad, right?
This does get deep you know, freedom of speech, means I can say exactly what someone else said, in private, among friends, or in public, AS LONG AS I dont profit from it, thats the bottom line, isnt it? Profit, and monetary gain?
If you buy a plan, and offer it for free or money, you need to get kicked, but if you got it free, and thousands of others got it free, why cant you list it?
Sorry to have replied so much, I guess I'll chill out and be quiet now
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