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Old Dec 22, 2006, 04:52 PM
Phlathead
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Roseville, CA
Joined Aug 2006
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Build Log
YAP (Yet Another Profile) - EuroFighter 2000 - New Video!

Edit 11-18-2007: New video added, featuring a crash into the camera man!

Had a few hours to kill tonight and someone made a suggestion for a profile Eurofighter in one of my other threads. Decided that since these profile pushers are so much fun that I should start a series.

My goals are simple:
  • Stay as true to the profile
  • Preserve the illusion of depth
  • Keep the build as simple as possible with minimal parts
  • Strong enough to have many flights
  • Parts key to each other but not require excessive cutting
  • BlueCor or Depron
  • Cheap, light and fast chinese motors (I'm a big fan of the BP2409-12 right now!)
  • Fun as he11 to fly!
Thus I've decided to start a series of profile designs in the 20-25in WS range that I'll call the YAP series. Yet Another Profile.

So here is the quick design draft for the EuroFighter. Plans will be developed after the new year (I'm on vacation and I don't have access to a key piece of software). Prototype shortly after that and then I should be able to get the CG point. Working or fixed canards are builders choice.

Comments/Suggestions welcome.

YAP Eurofighter RC Pusher Jet (8 min 12 sec)
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Last edited by ToxicToast; Nov 18, 2007 at 08:39 PM. Reason: Updates.
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Old Dec 22, 2006, 04:56 PM
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Looks Good, will have to keep an eye open for the rest of the series.

Del
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Old Dec 22, 2006, 05:13 PM
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Munich, Bavaria
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Toxic that looks very cool!!! I love the EuFi anyway! So I'll be whatching with great interest!!!
I've build one or two myself. Some tipps from my experience:
- make the canards static (elevons only)
- use the lightest motor possible (if it's going to be a rear end pusher), so you can balance the CG by neatly hiding the battery in the air-intake
- the Delta is very twitchy around the roll axis. use moderate aileron throws.
(however your elevon area might be a tad too small for good low speed pitch control...maybe)

good luck and keep the pics flowing...
chara
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Old Dec 22, 2006, 06:08 PM
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Toast you definetly have some good CAD skills! I already have electronics ready for it.
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Old Dec 23, 2006, 01:15 PM
Phlathead
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Roseville, CA
Joined Aug 2006
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Update

Designed the inter-locking elements. Without a doubt, they add more to the complexity to the cut but I do find it a bit stronger and easier to fit as intended.
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Old Dec 23, 2006, 01:29 PM
Phlathead
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Roseville, CA
Joined Aug 2006
624 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by chara
Some tipps from my experience:
- make the canards static (elevons only)
Just out of curiosity, why? I was planning on giving it a go on the prototype after a few flights with just elevon delta setup on the TX. I would likely put a servo on the canard with some extremely tiny throws mixed with elevator input from the delta. Gradually add more and more if it is sucessful and experiment with AOA at slow flight if possible. I still might experiment but for now they are mostly cosmetic. Nice work BTW on your experimental one awhile back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chara
- use the lightest motor possible (if it's going to be a rear end pusher), so you can balance the CG by neatly hiding the battery in the air-intake
I wish I could find some dirt cheap stick mounted motors that can offer peformance similar to the 60g 2409-12s. Any suggestions in the <45g range? I'm looking for a fast motor for a 7x6.5e size prop or in that range. <=18amp draw on a 3S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chara
The Delta is very twitchy around the roll axis. use moderate aileron throws. (however your elevon area might be a tad too small for good low speed pitch control...maybe)
Its actually a bit larger than my f14 in length and depth in the current design and it flys reasonably well at slow speeds and high AOA. I'm fairly new to the hobby but I think I'm getting something close to a harrier with the setup on that. Hopefully the proto will reveal a lot. Rolls are a hoot with the F14.

Thanks for the encouraging words. Lot of the scale guys are digging the performance of my flat foamys and asking for cuts. Barter opportunities at the field!
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Old Dec 23, 2006, 01:34 PM
Phlathead
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Roseville, CA
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First go at the 'parts'

Split up the pieces and laid them out to prep before exporting. This helps with the plan making process and gives me a rough go at the parts layout.

The reinforcers that help with the illusion of depth and act as strengtheners are 3mm depron and could be considered optional.
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Old Dec 24, 2006, 05:46 PM
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ToxicT,

If you want a dirt cheap motor, try the Esskay 400XT from hobby Lobby on sale for 18 bucks for 3 more days. At 46 g they are lighter than the BP 12 you have & they work great. I use 3S 1200 lipos & 8X6 or 9X4 props.
I have 4 in use for these profle foamies & won't consider anything else. They are cheap, well made, & have good power.
With a bit of thin sheet aluminum, you can bend a stick mount in a few minutes.

What else do you have in mind for your "YAP" series. They look interesting?

Bob
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Old Dec 24, 2006, 06:15 PM
Time for another motto!
Utrecht, The Netherlands
Joined Jul 2006
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the $12 24gram hextronic motor from UnitedHobbies.com might be able to do the trick.https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITED...idProduct=2069 These fit in the tower stickmounts, but you can also just use a simple hoseclamp.
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Old Dec 25, 2006, 11:43 AM
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Munich, Bavaria
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Toxic,
the templates look great! looking forward to see the end product!
now to your questions:

- static canard: the canard has only a small effectiveness compared to the elevons. secondly, on the real EF the canard-deflection is primarily coupled to the angle of attack- that means, the canard leading edge is goind DOWN actually when you increase AoA. that is the opposite of what you can realize with a model aircraft. So...Keep it static, save weight and complexity (and a servo). Just "preload" the canard a bit (should fly at a slighly higher AoA than the main wing).

- Motor: I made excellent experiences with CDR-motors (kits) - very ligh, very cheap, great power to weight of the whole power setup.
JelleB's suggestion is excellent (also a CDR-class motor) and RTF.

- elevon size: of course I could be wrong. maybe I am. stay with your plans.
You can always redo the elevons if you find out that you need more control power at low speed.


good luck, buddy!
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Old Dec 25, 2006, 03:51 PM
Phlathead
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Roseville, CA
Joined Aug 2006
624 Posts
Thanks JelleB and Chara, just placed my order for motor you linked (as well as 2 other cheap ones for other planes). Looking forward to comparing them since I also just bought an watt meter before I left for the UK. I am planning on getting into winding my own eventually, its just a matter of time and inclination between work and family responsibilities.

I'll run the fixed canards and keep the proto in delta only until I get bored or have a replacement ready.

You recommended 'pre-loading' the canard, I assume you mean with a degree or so of down (towards the nose-down)? If i just kept it straight with the wing, do you anticipate any drawbacks to this? It is a pretty small canard on the design so I doubt any keeping it true to the thrust line would make all that much of a difference.

I'll hopefully provide a initial flight report in 2 weeks. Can't do anything while abroad. I'm looking at flying this thing like a rocket similar to the F14 I posted earlier this month.
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Old Dec 25, 2006, 03:55 PM
Phlathead
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Roseville, CA
Joined Aug 2006
624 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by boberos
ToxicT,
What else do you have in mind for your "YAP" series. They look interesting?
Bob
I *have* to do an SU-27M/K 35 whatever. Just gotta fly one in this style and I'm looking at speeds and flight characteristics that are beyond what the stock Ikarus does with 3mm depron. For the most part, these pushers are designed at the edge of 'park flying' because of the amount of speed and ground covered. Not really intended as a slow flyer by design.
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Old Dec 26, 2006, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicToast
You recommended 'pre-loading' the canard, I assume you mean with a degree or so of down (towards the nose-down)? If i just kept it straight with the wing, do you anticipate any drawbacks to this? It is a pretty small canard on the design so I doubt any keeping it true to the thrust line would make all that much of a difference.
Tox,
with preloading I mean to let the canard fly at a higher AoA than the main wing. You could do that by bending the trailing edge of the canard a bit down.
That is to assure that the canard stalls before the main wing which makes the plane behave more gentle during stalls (and also aleviates high speed pitch hunting a bit)
You could of course start out without preloaded canard and see how it behaves. If you're unhappy, make the bending modification...

In the meanwhile I'll try to be patient for the next 2 weeks
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Old Dec 26, 2006, 07:18 AM
gpw
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Didn't somebody just do a Eurofighter???? how did theirs' do ??? Good to compare ... Love those profiles!!!
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Old Dec 26, 2006, 10:37 PM
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here is the one from july done by blackrat

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=543570
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