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Old Dec 08, 2007, 09:26 PM
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OK guys!
It's cold out, and it's time for a story
I started with the Weird one from Dick sarpolus back in '85, then came up with my design the following year(green Counselor) I had figured that a retired Aero Engineer didn't know what he was talkin' about, so I mounted the main wing with 1 degree positive incidence. After all, I wanted enough lift to carry the bird to great heights, now didn't I Well, what that had done was to put the a/c's fuselage in a slightly nose down position when I got on the step, and all supposed 'lift' was burned up in dragging all those extra molecules around. I had plenty of throw for the canard, that she would bend the rules in an inverted flat spin, and pull out with 30 ft to spare to do it again.No one had told me that a canard wasn't supposed to do that! After having a 5-6 year video game sabatical, i got re-involved with true art, and started back at the beginning with a Butterfly2 wing plan, and the appropriate canard to match--22 % the new one is extremely turbulated on the main wing with a somewhat laminar canard. I like to have about 1/2" of up authority, and 3/8" down, that way, when an evasive manuever is necessary, I have authority to pull it off. I find that building the 2 meter/ standard is less time consuming than a handlaunch size, and that arguement of which airfoil can go on till eternity starts, but the pilot is where things are at. the only time I had been "behind" my birds, was at a sun angle less than 15 degrees from horizon, in the 'is it coming or going' situation. the Counselor was the last to land when the slope winds died off, and had I been involved with contests more, it would be a major contendor. All of my trophies are either in the bottom of a file cabinet, holding wing rods and tubes along with the screwdrivers, or just flat out thrown out
My only failures have been the twin 40 mm on my blog, as there was not enough room to do everything I wanted to carry, and back in '90, when full rotating wings was the thing, I tried that, but had my start point in the wrong place for first handlaunch-- oops another winter's work shot in 12 seconds! I may personnally laugh at the simplicity of some of the designs, but the backgrounds all seem to have blue sky and clouds in them, compared to black an d white print. All this yakety yak makes me tired, and I salute everyone that is accomplishing their present goal. I have decommisioned the twin propped fella, as I learned what I needed, and now will search my brain for a shape to go along with what I now know. more later.
Johnny
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Old Dec 08, 2007, 10:28 PM
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Good story, Captain. Your models look sharp to me and the Canard wing on "the starting point" is nice looking and seems different from the others. Did you change shapes for any reason? What do you think of a motor ahead of the front wing? Charles
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Old Dec 09, 2007, 01:29 AM
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Bill Kubiak on Canards

I just found some comments by Bill Kubiak about the Counselor sailplane design that the Captain referred to. There are some very interesting comments about the requirement for lateral area at the front of canard models.

The link is here.
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Old Dec 09, 2007, 02:48 AM
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weird one

Quote:
Originally Posted by xlcrlee
.... years ago someone I knew built and flew a very nice looking high aspect ratio lightly loaded Canard sailplane (winch launch). It flew beautifully and looked very nice up there .... however, because it flew slowly, especially when it was "going" upwind, the pilot had to continually remind himself which end was the front!
Captain Canardly: THANKS! I just remembered my buddy's name and his plane (at least the prototype or first one in that series) mentioned in this quoted post I made earlier. Namely Dick Sarpolus and his "Weird One". Actually it flew and looked great, but from his confusion as to which way the slow-flying craft was headed, I still suggest doing something design- or graphics-wise to make orientation very clear to the pilot. Making the vertical stabilizer(s) very obvious (large /dark-colored) on a slow Canard sailplane is not SUCH a bad notion, for ex. Lee
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Old Dec 09, 2007, 03:23 AM
who has rabbit ears down
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WOWEE Gang!
I t looks like a Hot season this year! Thanks for the link ,John! Now to answer some questions!
Charles) I haven't stopped using the signature tail feathers, I think it is the camera's angle that may make it look different on some birds. 2) I did however go with a straight box fuselage for about 5 birds for a couple reasons/ to get in the air as quickly as possible, and even though the "first" bird had lots of room, there was some structure points that needed more volume to deal with launch and landing loads. It did eventually crack in half after 5 years of flight when flying off a slope! but that was after I was the last guy down, and I thought I had enough space to turn into the hill-- OOPS!
2) the only thing about doing a motor in front of the canard, is the balance, it would take an incredible amount of battery/ fuel whichever to counter the many ounces of moment arm in front, after this conquest is successfully captured, I think the torque on the canard, and right hand 'rolling moment' would be a less difficult challenge to overcome!
Lee! That's great to see Dick getting around! not everyone has weirdness built in like myself! I have had many humors about the "proper" orientations! That is partially the reason for the signature tail! I have PDF's for the new bird at Canardly Soar in the thermal forum!
Oh yes, the diamond shaped fuse is only my want to have a touch of nostalgia, but wow! it is huge and slightly heavy- 12 ounces, but strong like a baseball bat!
more later, Johnny
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Old Dec 09, 2007, 05:28 AM
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Weird One

The Weird one is quite an impressive looking plane, especially in size and the high aspect ratio. The tail moment for the rudder looks quite short. Can anyone report about the flying characteristics of this model?
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Old Dec 09, 2007, 06:10 AM
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John, The Kubiak report was terrific reading. Too bad he did not have our CoG calculator and computer to work with. The rudder does look a bit close in on the wierd one to be real effective. I feel that the polyhedral in the wing helps the turning ability. The CoG must be near the lady's left hand. Charles
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Old Dec 09, 2007, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John235
The Weird one is quite an impressive looking plane, especially in size and the high aspect ratio. The tail moment for the rudder looks quite short. Can anyone report about the flying characteristics of this model?
John. as I wrote, I recall seeing the prototype, or at least first in the series fly. I do not recall extra vertical fins on the wing, just the central rear one. I may actually have been at the first launch and flight. It was at a beautifully grassed horse farm/park in NJ, not too far from a large racetrack. Quite a few R/C sailplaners gathered there on weekends for stylish picnic and fly outings. Quiet delight.

This plane rode the line up and flew as well as any of the other lightly-loaded floaters of this general wing style and size. It was quite elegant in flight, with a very nice L/D as well. I remember long flat landing approaches in over the low white wooden periphery fence, in slow motion and in seeming sweet defiance of gravity.
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Old Dec 09, 2007, 09:33 AM
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You paint a beautiful picture, Lee. I love a graceful glide in calm air. Charles
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Old Dec 09, 2007, 01:43 PM
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AHHH The memories!
I have to do some seious digging to fing pictures of my weird one, But do remember that the first flight was 10;37 long, and the fellas at MRCSS didn't think it would work. one of my other projects is getting a VHS to DVD to Digital, as I do have video of this first flight. 15 MPH winds, climb on tow was about 80 degrees for first few hundred feet, and I set up larger circles for final. ground effect is great, and learning to hit the spot is where the intimacy between pilot and bird is at! Looks like I have a big work load, as I do have the Mag about the weird one - I will post it during the day!--
Chuck} Concerning your funny landing with the other bird you were talking about, that is a somewhat common landing in gusty weather, or uneven ground that 'throws' the bird back up in the air as it did. Yesss, you can call it ground effect!
I would assess an airplanes L/D with hand launches back to the car, and pace it off.
I would get 55 paces with an OLY 650, 80-85 paces with a Bird Of Time, and 85-95 paces with the weird one. I was getting 85 paces with the 100 inch counselor, even with the offset wing. The most fun I had with the Counselor was catching thermals at 50 feet above the road as a car would drive by, and kick off thermals- i caught 5 of them in 20 minutes, never got above 100 feet, and was first setting up for a landing when I met the first one! it would have a 'normal' 4 minute flight otherwise. The largest advantage I love with Canards is that it is incredibly easy to learn how to read a thermal! Pictures later- I gotta carve some bird!
Johnny
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Old Dec 09, 2007, 02:02 PM
who has rabbit ears down
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here's a couple teasers, as I soak up my coffee!
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Old Dec 09, 2007, 04:33 PM
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Thanks to xlcrlee and the captain for the Weird one flight reports. I figured it was good time to ask about this interesting model. It seems to have been one of the early canard gliders that may have influenced later designs. I would like to see the captians flight videos too if they become available.
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Old Dec 09, 2007, 08:40 PM
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Captain, did you hand launch at the car and measure the distance? Is L/D lift to drag?? Most modelers think thermals are only in warm weather but I find in Atlanta that I get the best lift about February in cool air. After my present project, I will try to see if front end power is feasible for a canard sailplane style with an extended rudder behind the wing. It seems to depend on how far the battery leads can extend from back to front.I have 26" twisted power leads on Mickey Duck. Since this picture was taken, The nimh batteries were removed and the lipos were mounted under the canard. Charles
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Old Dec 09, 2007, 10:58 PM
who has rabbit ears down
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story time

Yo there Gang!
Wellll- ain;t got no balsa wurks dunn, but at least I managed to get a scan at less than 3 meg limit!
It was only Supposed to take 1/2 hour!
Charles}
I would begin my soaring day with a 1/2 mile walk- 1/4 out, set high start anchor/tiedown and return to car to set up birds. I have shortened the high start this year, though- all that extra length was not supported by a 10 year old rubber! My ending of day flights would be as the battery was used up, I would only go for short throws, just incase I had drained it to the point of exhaustion. after all I do need one rule-- that is only one airborn battery per bird per day! better days had 4 birds flying! Ok, then guys here's what took me so long-- This would be my first chapter of my 'Flight book'--
The Counselor is the third chapter, which you have heard the high points!
As far as thermal generations go, it is not the warmth of ambient air as it is the contrast Bob Wander of the Redwing Soaring Society (full size) has a story of pulling 4,000 ft off of a bunch of burning leaves in November a bunch of years ago. One of my 'game cheats' I would want to try is take a handlaunch and fly through the heat of a barbeque grill- should have the same effect!
Johnny
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Old Dec 10, 2007, 12:20 AM
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Captain, thanks for posting the article. The airfoil on the forward wing is pretty weird, and seems like a dubious design choice to me. The way I read the article, there was some yaw instability problem that followed a stall, prior to the wing mounted fins being added. Do you know if that understanding is correct?
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