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Old Oct 09, 2007, 10:00 PM
Buzz Run Extraordinare!
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USA, MI, Sanford
Joined Jul 2006
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nice airplane addict!!! looks nice.
has anyone ever tried to make an su-27 model? i knot it would be interesting to see, but hard because of the imperfrct balance ( the two uneven booms near the thrust diverters)
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Old Oct 09, 2007, 10:13 PM
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Thank you b-29er. I will leave your question for a more knowledgeable person. Do you have a Slow Stick? Charles
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Old Oct 09, 2007, 10:23 PM
EDF Addicted
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Joined Sep 2005
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the ssx canard is looking great. John thanks for the EZ info
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 06:25 AM
Buzz Run Extraordinare!
b-29er's Avatar
USA, MI, Sanford
Joined Jul 2006
2,371 Posts
i do not have a slow stick, but i am looking into canard aircraft, possibly a two-boom variant, such as a p-38 flying backwards. i am looking into a combat demonstrator aircraft which is maneuverable, so im using this design for high ratr of climb and maneuverability. it could fly pretty well alongside a zagi wing if built. i am also looking into a bombbay for an optional dummy bomb or twin 6mm bb guns with camera for demonstration purpouses only (if i actually would shoot at somones rc airplane, im sure i'd be chased off the flying field with pitchforks and torches), and because canard aircraft do not need to push the aircraft down before climb like a conventional aircraft, it could have more lift. ill send pics if it is built.
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 10:19 AM
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b-29er, I like the twin boom canard idea. If you will look through this thread you can find one in the material submitted by Airboatflyingship. When you find it please give us the page and post number. It seems it was a control line version. Charles
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 11:23 AM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
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I vaguely recall a rush of twin boom canards when I was a kid into CL flying - the layout had a tractor motor on the wing LE, the booms around the prop and the control system offset so the pushrod didn't foul the prop.

I also recall my scratch built version, off a photo in the old Aeromodeller magazine, failing to commit aviation

With RC and an electric motor, it would almost be too easy! Starting a diesel between those booms was just too much fun, that I do remember.

As always, if in doubt, make a large scale model up from foam food trays, old cereal packets, depron, scrap balsa or WHY. Put CG at "best guess" take into garden. local soccer pitch or other handy patch of grass and attempt to commit aviation. Once you have a handle on areas and balance, off you go with the RC version.

If you really have to build an IMAA legal one, suggest a small RC foamie to check the freeflight chuck glider parameters out a little more deeply first...

Regards

Dereck
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 01:25 PM
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Millennium SSX Aileron attachment

A decision was made to use plastic hinges so that the small single servo could use it's energy in fighting the wind flow. My method has been used many times, requires no adhesive and is actually fun to do. The aileron servo set up supplied with my kit was used because it seemed to be the lightest and best way. Charles
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 01:46 PM
EDF Addicted
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Ocala,Florida
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well I'm working on a 40 size Extra conversion for ZEFF but I've decided to show another canard idea I have based on the Quikie. Plan to have it flying at ZEFF
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 08:05 PM
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Go for it, ACE! Be sure to check for the correct incidences on the wings. Charles
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Old Oct 11, 2007, 06:57 AM
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Chattanooga
Joined Nov 2004
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The Voyager (finally) flies!

Well, Charles, the planets were finally in alignment, and we got the Long-EZ Voyager aloft yesterday! This is the Nitroplanes 55" HRF (hardly ready to fly) kit, powered with a Medusa Research 1700kv motor, Jeti 40 amp esc, 3S3200 lipo on an APC 8x4E prop, developing ~275 watts. All-up weight 46 oz.

My mods included steerable nosegear, motor air scoops, and slotted hatch cover for battery compartment. I installed the Futaba 2.4 GHz FAAST receiver in a hatch cut in the cockpit. The battery was located to balance the plane without adding additional ballast ... sliding it forward a couple of inches into the bay beneath the canard wing, braced with balsa framing and securely velcroed.

Take-off run was less than 100' ... aileron trims were okay, but elevator needed about 5 or 6 degrees of up-trim (i.e. down deflection) for level flight at half throttle. This bears out your recommendation to shim the leading edge of the canard, Charles. I will experiment with shifting the CG up to 1/4" aft to see if that improves the pitch trim ... and depending on that outcome, look into adding some reflex trim to the ailerons.

The model is for the most part docile, performing smooth figure-8's and large loops in a predictable fashion. Rolls aren't as pretty ... with precise elevator management needed to avoid significant altitude loss. We found that high-speed stalls (i.e. from vertical flight) were soft and straight ahead. However, low-speed stalls (i.e. from level flight, reducing throttle) induced a pronounced left snap and significant altitude loss. Good to know when we have her on landing approach. That brings us to the final flight test observation: crosswind take-off and landing (chronic at our field) revealed some weather-vaning from the fixed vertical stabilizers that one would normally correct with rudder.

A 10+ minute flight at 50-60% throttle used about 40% of battery capacity, so this setup will do 15+ minute flights with room to spare (the way I fly). The motor was barely warm to the touch - the same with the battery. I'd considered adding a NACA scoop beneath the canard wing for added ventilation, but will skip that.

It'll take several more outings before my nerves settle down ... each time the plane was viewed obliquely (3/4 view) my poor brain tried to tell me I was going backwards.

PJ
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Last edited by pjwright; Oct 11, 2007 at 07:58 AM.
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Old Oct 11, 2007, 09:26 AM
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Congratulations PJW

PJW, That is a super report and I love the way you have equipped the model.I noticed how particular you were on the details and it has paid off. I can only guess what your next move is but from what you say about the slow performance dropping a tip,I would not move the CG back. The canard needs to drop before a wing tip and that calls for more load on it. To add canard load you can shift the CG forward,or reduce the canard area. If you add canard incidence, it will stall quicker which is what we want. Adding UP reflex to the wing will add angle of attack up front which should help.I tried a lighter battery which shifted the CG back and it caused my model to get wobbly and lose the solid flight and glide. The nose wanted to oscillate in the glide approach. The CG was around 16.5 back. The roll rate is slow on my LEZ and was slow on the Hobby Lobby 40 conversion but looked smooth with no loss of altitude. The little 380 electric has a quick roll probably due to the short wing span. It seems that Tom Smith started out with the same problems that you have with full UP trim and zero reflex. I will try to find his maiden report. Have fun with it and do a little change at a time. Charles
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Old Oct 11, 2007, 10:06 AM
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Trimming Voyager 55" Long EZ

PJW, There is lots of discussion on the subject starting at page 48,post 708 through 750 as Tom Smith searches for answers. Post 740 ends his search. Please let us know what you do since there are lots of Voyager owners around. Charles
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Old Oct 11, 2007, 11:46 AM
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PJW, On second thoughts, If your CG is at 15.75, I would start with adding about 3/16" UP reflex at the aileron mid point and try flying with some UP trim on the canard. I also feel that the canard needs a 1/16" shim in front to attain neutral elevator although Tom seems to have his elevator at 1/8 DOWN and no shim. I know that the shim causes the seam to be uneven but to me it is worth it. Charles
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Old Oct 11, 2007, 12:20 PM
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Chattanooga
Joined Nov 2004
149 Posts
Thanks for the encouragement, Charles. The CG is at 15.5" aft of the canard LE. I'm thinking it could go as far as 15.75" before I start to get into stability issues. I'll make small adjustments as we get more familiar with the plane, looking for the "sweet spot." I do think that aileron reflex will help, and I may also drop a temporary shim at the front of the canard mount. But one change at a time!

One thing I learned from reading others' experience was to remove the factory-installed blind nuts from the canard, and epoxy them back in once the canard was trued-up to the rest of the plane. The danged things were installed all cock-eyed to begin with. Fairly simple matter to tape the blind nuts back in place with 30 minute epoxy applied, and tighten everything up when I was happy with the canard alignment. I also had to shim the right side of the canard about 1/64 to level it to the main wing.

The biggest shortcoming with this kit (a later version than yours) is the permanently attached wing. That rascal barely fits in the bed of my pickup. I like how yours breaks at the wing joint ... a natural place to do a wing tube. And from my limited experience with the Long-EZ, I'm pretty sure I'll build functional rudders on my Ascender to help with crosswind situations.

So far ... a good learning experience on this type model.

PJ
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Old Oct 11, 2007, 03:10 PM
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Millennium SSX Winglets

The extra rudder was assembled, modified for strength and shaped to match the ARF version. Both were shaped to fit the end rib at the proper angle and covered with my new red Solite. It is best to not glue the winglets on because they tend to get damaged in handling and repair is easier when they are removed. The pictures show the details. Charles
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Last edited by canard addict; Oct 11, 2007 at 03:19 PM. Reason: Add sentence
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