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Old May 01, 2007, 04:01 PM
Rhinebeck CD-99,00,01,02
Tom Smith's Avatar
New Bern, NC
Joined Mar 2001
3,060 Posts
Kyle, The OneWingLowSquadron electric fun fly on May 26/27 is about an hour north of me. I will check my calendar and see if I can make it. Sounds like another good one. Tom
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Old May 01, 2007, 06:20 PM
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United States, FL, High Springs
Joined Sep 2005
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Tom,the last three years were great e flys,look forward to seeing you and the other "locals" there. A great field and bunch of guys
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Old May 02, 2007, 12:48 PM
Rhinebeck CD-99,00,01,02
Tom Smith's Avatar
New Bern, NC
Joined Mar 2001
3,060 Posts
Charles, she flies, but I had to hold full up enevator to keep it flying. My ailerons have no refex in them and as it turned out, it appears I had a bit of down elevator. I thought I had set it at neutral. Looking for a little advice before the next flight. Should I simply program in some "up" elevator and fly it like that or move the CG back a bit to lighten up the nose. It flew very nicely, and the landing was picture perfect, especially since I was unable to flare. It is a floater for sure. I maintained my altitude during the flight using throttle. Mega motor was cold to the touch after the 5 minute flight. Looking foreward to your reply. Tom.
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Old May 02, 2007, 08:39 PM
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Tom, Glad you made the flight without incident. I am suspicious that the wing may have more positive incidence than mine. If you can rotate it some it may help. Add the reflex in the aileron and shim up the front of the canard. please check the COG again. Every little bit helps but we don't want to overdo it. Does the motor have lots of power and some to spare? I feel that 16" back from the canard LE will work, although mine is maybe 15.75. A little UP elevator may help also and you can always trim down in flight. Are you running three lipos? My Shinden required full UP elevator at first and I corrected it by going from two to three cells and adding area to the canard since I could not easily change the incidence. Hope this helps. Please let us know. Charles
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Old May 02, 2007, 08:58 PM
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Tom, What size prop on the Mega? Are you pulling 19 amps? Charles
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Old May 02, 2007, 09:47 PM
Rhinebeck CD-99,00,01,02
Tom Smith's Avatar
New Bern, NC
Joined Mar 2001
3,060 Posts
Chgarles

MY CG is at 15.75 inches. She had plenty of power on a 3s 2400 lipo with the MEGA motor and a 9x6 prop. Power is not an issue. I have no reflex in the ailerons and a tad of up canard (down elevator) by mistake. I was thinking of moving the CG back to 16" and I already set the elevator straight, if not a little down (up elev.) This first flight was with the stick pulled all the way back. It kept rolling down the runway and I kept pulling back on the stick. When it finally lifted off I then realized I had full up. Luckily, it flew perfectly there at about 1/2 throttle, so all I had to do to control altitude was increase or decrease power. The ailerons were set perfect. The guys were amazed I greased it in. I do have to get nose wheel steering on this thing. What a pain walking out to get it. I'm used to landing at my feet. Tom
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Old May 03, 2007, 03:12 PM
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Voyager Decalage

Tom, I measured the difference in canard angle relative to the main wing. The TE of the canard was 1.63 and the LE was 1.72. This was from the suface to the yard stick, with the elevator flat or neutral. So the canard LE was 0.09" more positive than the TE. Charles
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Old May 03, 2007, 04:17 PM
Rhinebeck CD-99,00,01,02
Tom Smith's Avatar
New Bern, NC
Joined Mar 2001
3,060 Posts
Charles, I just measured mine and there is a 1/16 " positive angle of attack in my canard. Kinda puny for a canard. Should I shim the leading edge up like you did? Maybe the CG at 15.75 is OK. I don't like to change two things at one time. That way you are never sure which one, if either, fixed the problem. Which one should I do first, move the CG back for the second flight or shim the canard for that fight. Or, jut put in some up canard and fly it like that.
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Last edited by Tom Smith; May 03, 2007 at 06:05 PM.
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Old May 03, 2007, 05:34 PM
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Tom, Yours is at 0.06 and mine is at 0.09. I would put the shim in because the whole canard increase will be better than only elevator. . Charles
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Old May 03, 2007, 06:04 PM
Rhinebeck CD-99,00,01,02
Tom Smith's Avatar
New Bern, NC
Joined Mar 2001
3,060 Posts
My canard fit is so tight in that slot I will have to either carve the fuselage bulkheads or the canard pieces that fare into the fuselage. I tried the shim and the fit in that opening is so tight that with both bolts tightened down the gap on the front and rear of the canard was equal, even though only the front leading edge was shimmed the trailing edge was the exact same spacing.
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Old May 04, 2007, 06:46 AM
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pjwright's Avatar
Chattanooga
Joined Nov 2004
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Voyager Canard Incidence

Hi, Tom -- I went back and recalculated my incidence angles (see post 656). Now I'm taking a line through the canard chord (a mistake a made earlier) and coming up with 2.7 degrees positive, with the main wing at positive 2.5 degrees. That's virtually zero difference. I agree with Charles: shimming the leading edge of the canard up 1/16" will add 1 degree of positive incidence ... still less than designers recommend, but better than the stock kit.
You can easily determine the incidence angles by using online calculators such as the one found at http://www.1728.com/angsize.htm.
I'm still futzing around getting the hardware installed to my satisfaction. Then I'll tackle the wing installation, and finally mount the canard. I want to use my incidence meters on the fixed wing when I set the foreplane incidence. I detached the factory-installed blindnuts for the canard mount, and will epoxy them back in with the canard set at the desired angle to avoid the binding problem you've had.

pj
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Old May 04, 2007, 07:58 AM
Rhinebeck CD-99,00,01,02
Tom Smith's Avatar
New Bern, NC
Joined Mar 2001
3,060 Posts
Thanks for chiming in PJ. I was going to take it out again today with some reflex in the ailerons and a bit of down in the canard elevator to see how that works, and leave the CG where it is. In that photo Charles posted last he was measuring the bottom of the wing for the incidence, but I believe this is a semi symetrical wing section and that doesn't work. Maybe I will have to dig out my Robart incidence meter and check it that way before flying it again. I think my old 1911 Taube is going to the field with me today instead. The Long EZ needs more thought. Thanks again, Tom
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Old May 05, 2007, 08:15 PM
Dr John
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Lake Placid, Florida
Joined Dec 2001
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Well guys, I had a bit of a thrill today. I flew a Long EZ for about a half an hour. No not a model but the full size real deal. I went to an EAA picnic at the Avon Park,FL. airport and my friend Joe Barnhard, who's plans I used to design my model, showed up with his LEZ. He must have noticed to dribble from the corner of my mouth and asked me if I wanted to go up. Of coarse I passed,NOT. You don't so much get into this bird but rather pull it on. We blasted out of the airport and in no time were through the clouds and at 5000 foot cruising at about 160 knots. Joe pulled the throttle back and eased back on the stick until she went into a very gentle oscillation that passes for a stall in this bird. A bit more back on the stick and we were in a parachute, nose high dropping down with almost 0 airspeed. Feed in some power and we are flying again. He then said the words I had been waiting for "you have the aircraft". I started making gentle banking turns (no rudder pedals in the back seat) and gradually increased the bank while holding altitude. This thing takes so little stick movement it is almost like you are thinking it where you want to go. Once I had a feel for her I dropped through a hole in the clouds down to 1500 feet and flew out to buzz the local model field. Back to the airport and fly the approch down to about 700 feet on final at which time you can't see the runway from the back seat and Joe took back over and set her back down on the tarmack. What a sweet bird!
Sorry for the interuption, I was just so fired up I had to share. I will now turn this thread back over the the regularly scheduled discussion.

John
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Old May 06, 2007, 01:31 AM
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United States, FL, High Springs
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John,awesome experience,hope to see this LEZ one day soon!
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Old May 06, 2007, 06:13 AM
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Airboatflyingshp's Avatar
B'ham UK
Joined Oct 2005
2,990 Posts
Charles time for those U tube links I sent you I think.............
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