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Old Jan 03, 2013, 12:17 PM
What could possibly go wrong?
nickchud's Avatar
Market Harborough
Joined Apr 2006
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For anyone who has wondered what Charles looks like, here he is, flying the Icon 5:
Icon-5 (3 min 0 sec)


Nice work Charles!
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 12:24 PM
Flutter-Bys are fun
Conehead's Avatar
United States, MI, Honor
Joined Dec 2005
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Nice job of filming Charles's Icon-5.

That is the first time I have seen an Icon-5 with wheels.

We could have used a tad more footage of Charles. Nice to see what Charles looks like even briefly.
Good Job Nickchud.
Hope you are having a good time in the USA.
Conehead
Orrin Eldred
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 03:38 PM
What could possibly go wrong?
nickchud's Avatar
Market Harborough
Joined Apr 2006
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Quote:
We could have used a tad more footage of Charles.
Yes, sorry about that. I was using my hatcam, got plenty of footage of feet!

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Old Jan 03, 2013, 06:42 PM
Flutter-Bys are fun
Conehead's Avatar
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Nickchud,
You tried, that is the important part. Hard to see what you are shooting with a hat cam. I really loved the comments during the flight.

Conehead
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 09:14 PM
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Conehead, Thanks for your interest in seeing a better shot of me but it would not be pretty since I am well over the hill with a few wrinkles showing up. Nick has rejuvenated my interest in the hobby greatly with his drive to learn and his love of flying machines. You can hear it in his voice during a flight.
I feel a need to pass on my experiences with the Icon A5 since it now behaves well.The changes were made after considering inputs from club members and a couple of threads here. The first flights required full UP trim and fast landing approaches with added UP elevator. At high speed, the model tended to arc downward from what I considered to be caused from the drag of the wheels, the lower fuselage and the thrust force, all of which acted about the center of gravity for nose DOWN. The CG seemed too far forward at only 18.5% behind the wing's LE. The wing's outer sections had wash out which could decrease lift especially if the horizontal stab lacked enough downward force. The corrections which were suggested were: remove 2.4 ounces from the bottom of the front hatch by cutting out the bottom with the pilot and dash, Move the CG location to 1.75 inches to the rear of the wing's LE and add shims to the rear of the horizontal stab. Shims were made from 1/16" sheet balsa measuring 3/4" by 3/8" placing one on each plastic plate. The 173 gram Parkzone battery was located full forward in it's slot which caused the model to balance at 1.75 inches. Without the shims, the stab was unable to provide adequate angle of attack of the wing. With more lift and drag from the wing the Icon now is slower but still has quick response to all controls. The wing's added drag about the CG will rotate the nose upward as I see it which cancels some of the drag from below.

Charles
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 11:22 PM
Just Me
United States, OR, Salem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canard addict View Post
......The changes were made after considering inputs from.....
Changes huh.....let's see....you switch two of them motor wires, move that CG closer to the horizontal stab, adjust the incidence a little and whoooooaaaaaa...you got yourself another Canard.....

or not.....
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 04:45 AM
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Brner
Quote:
Changes huh.....let's see....you switch two of them motor wires, move that CG closer to the horizontal stab, adjust the incidence a little and whoooooaaaaaa...you got yourself another Canard.....
Sounds like what happened to me back in 2004 when I turned a Wingo around.

On a serious note, it would be a shame to try that on such a breathtaking machine as the Icon A5 is.

Charles
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 07:08 AM
What could possibly go wrong?
nickchud's Avatar
Market Harborough
Joined Apr 2006
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Brner. You're right, in fact if you remove the horizontal stab from the Icon and replace it with a big new main wing under the fuse, you'll have the plane that's currently under construction, I think.

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Old Jan 05, 2013, 08:27 AM
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Charles,
Have you been to all the Icon-5 threads. There are two under Waterplanes and one under Parkfliers. Just wondered.

So you got the Icon flying the way you want. Great. As I said, that is the first time I have ever seen the Icon with wheels. All the flights up here have been off the water. Those that have the Icon, have done nothing to change the Icon. They just drop a battery in, off they go.

Glad you are enjoying it.
Conehead
Orrin Eldred

Now back to canards, for everyone's sake.
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Old Jan 05, 2013, 01:29 PM
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Thanks for the tips and encuragement

Thanks for the info and the kind words guys. been off here for a few days and haven't got much more done on the design. but I will be starting the main wing later today. Nickchud, I think your right about the canard I went back and looked at it after reading your post and I will be increasing the cord by at least an inch probably two. I have every intention of using ailerons and elevator on the canard and the system you showed me is right along the lines of what I dreamed up but instead of carbon I am using skewers. (I'm all about the dollar store). I would love to use depron but I have about 30 sheets of dtf and the only way the wife tolerates my hobby is if I keep the cost to a minimum, at least until I finish school and can afford to spend more
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 02:12 PM
What could possibly go wrong?
nickchud's Avatar
Market Harborough
Joined Apr 2006
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Good on yer Stang! I will be rooting for you!

I did some damage to my plane, including crushing the crumple zone when I took my eye of it and left it to dive into the ground. It wasn't set up properly and I was suffering from the wind in my eyes. I had to go home to put that right.

Then, on an outing with Charles, I decided to test it with a single channel gyro on the ailerons... would have been fine but I fitted it the wrong way around. On the glide test it rolled over and broke its back. That was easily fixed in the field with tape, but more seriously, the control horn broke its fixing to the cf tube which controls the all-flying canard. This was an epoxy joint, the tube is fixed into the depron canard panels with gorilla glue, and that remained solid. I repaired the control horn joint with thick CA because I had some in my box and that has been a solid fix ever since. So Charles and I were soon in action again with the gyro turned around the right way.

So here is the last time I will bother you with my holiday project, the holiday is over and I'm back to work tomorrow. This video was taken on Satuday morning, after consolidating the above fixes and shortly before setting off for the airport. She flies hands-off very easily, for more excitement I could move the CoG further back and take the gyro out again. If I fix the fin flutter I could fly it much faster.
JAS 39 Gripen Foam Parkflyer (5 min 13 sec)


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Old Jan 06, 2013, 07:26 PM
You can't take the sky from me
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United States, OH, Cincinnati
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This might seem like a really wacky idea, but I'd like to know if it's even feasible. Would it be doable to make a canard style airplane with a twin motor setup with adjustable pitch, and a flat airfoil so that you could reverse flying direction in flight? As in change from a canard aircraft to a standard aircraft? Or would the CG be way off?
thanks for entertaining my idea.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 08:05 PM
What could possibly go wrong?
nickchud's Avatar
Market Harborough
Joined Apr 2006
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Hee hee! Good, crazy question CB. I've wondered about that too.

I think the key is in the fin. That's got to be at the back. You could make one at each end with a servo that raises one and lowers the other. How about a CF rod and some kite material?

Tandem wings with 3 or 4 degrees of decalage between them and the CG at the mid point. Perhaps for a first test, launch with a single motor, get air born, then cut the motor, stall it and raise the opposite fin. You might be able to glide down backwards.

Then you've got to think about control surfaces. Wing warping?

Crazy idea! Amazing what jet lag can do to the brain. I know Trevor Hewson has thoughts on this subject. He called it the Each Way Bet. I'll look it up tomorrow.

Meanwhile there are just too many practical ideas to follow. I don't think I'll ever get round to that one. Except on sleepless nights.

Have fun
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 08:16 PM
You can't take the sky from me
copperbricks's Avatar
United States, OH, Cincinnati
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I think if you made the canards as flying surfaces, you wouldn't have to reverse anything to change direction. And if you used them for roll and pitch, you wouldn't have to fiddle with anything else. And maybe just have the fuse flare up a little bit at each end to work for keeping the model straight in the air. And if Cg is a huge problem, the battery could be slung underneath on a rail controlled by a servo, so you pull up into vertical, then flip the switch to move the battery, and reverse the pitch, and dive out in the opposite configuration. I know what you mean though, I thought this up at 3:00 in the morning :P
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 04:13 AM
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CB, Here's the link to the Each Way Bet that Nick mentioned. It started out as an April fool spoof 23 years ago and it's a topic that has come back to haunt me at intervals ever since. I'm in remission at the moment so don't get me started!
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