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Old Jul 09, 2012, 02:56 AM
What could possibly go wrong?
nickchud's Avatar
Market Harborough
Joined Apr 2006
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Charles,

If you were to put your drawings on the ground, then stand on a chair and photograph them It would be possible to make a pretty good digital drawing from them. Especially if you include the rectangular edges. In that way it's possible to use Photoshop to correct for the keystone effect, so there's no need to risk breaking your neck leaning over.

Actually, why not pin them to a board and stand them upright?

Anyway, I'll make the copies as I did with the Delta Duck.

Cheers

Nick
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Old Jul 09, 2012, 11:46 AM
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United States, CA, Corona
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Hi fellow Canard fans,

Just converted an Airhog Titan glider into semi-scale J7W Shinden and successfully maidened her.

Build info:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...46101&page=101
Maiden: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...4#post22115304
Video:
RC J7W Shinden maiden flight (2 min 50 sec)
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Old Jul 09, 2012, 06:08 PM
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edwen303
Quote:
Just converted an Airhog Titan glider into semi-scale J7W Shinden and successfully maidened her.
Impressive, Ed, I'll bet you were shocked at the speed! The Shinden was designed to go after our bombers and was very fast . Thank you for sharing.

Charles
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Old Jul 09, 2012, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by canard addict View Post
edwen303


Impressive, Ed, I'll bet you were shocked at the speed! The Shinden was designed to go after our bombers and was very fast . Thank you for sharing.

Charles
Thanks for your compliment CanardAddict! Your thread inspired me and gave me the awe of flying or even watching a canard flying. I simply just love seeing unconventional things. A canard in an expert pilot/builder's hand has unusual grace.

Honestly I still don't quite understand canard or rc plane in general, seemingly the following tips are helpful:
1. big wingspan
2. wingtip washout
3. higher canard location for the low-wing design.
4. low battery location also for the low wing design.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by canard addict View Post
edwen303


Impressive, Ed, I'll bet you were shocked at the speed! The Shinden was designed to go after our bombers and was very fast . Thank you for sharing.

Charles
Indeed, for its weight (over 29 oz) and power at ~300W, she was pretty quick, impressive roll rate and loop from level flight, as you can see from the video. Yet I am planning to get 400W power for some vertical performance, something like 1300kv Turnigy motor with 9x7 prop, tricycle retract is in consideration too.


Updated pictures for the Shinden.
This Shinden would have been an intimidating foe to force B-29's to get some escort. Supposedly she would be faster than P-51 Mustang (466mph vs. 437mph), the escort job would be difficult too.

Question: how do you think the high canard location and low battery location contribute to the stability of Shinden?
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 03:38 PM
What could possibly go wrong?
nickchud's Avatar
Market Harborough
Joined Apr 2006
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Fine machine! fortunately for the allies the maiden flight was 3 August 1945.

I looked it up on Wikipedia and found this page, full of contemporary canard warplanes, eg the Curtiss Ascender, Miles M35, Ambrosini SS.4.. Should be a good source of interesting planes to build!




Comparing the Ascender (ass-ender) with the German Henschel P.75, these 2 planes must have had very different characteristics. Surely they had diferrent missions. hmm?
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by nickchud View Post
Fine machine! fortunately for the allies the maiden flight was 3 August 1945.

I looked it up on Wikipedia and found this page, full of contemporary canard warplanes, eg the Curtiss Ascender, Miles M35, Ambrosini SS.4.. Should be a good source of interesting planes to build!




Comparing the Ascender (ass-ender) with the German Henschel P.75, these 2 planes must have had very different characteristics. Surely they had diferrent missions. hmm?
I wonder if there is a practical matter that is not in favor of a canard fighter, the canard might in part block the view of pilot, which would be a great drawback for any pilot, let alone in a dogfight.
Due to its rearward cg, a canard plane would need tricycle landing gear, which might add some more weight than taildraggers.

I thought about modeling the Curtiss XP-55, but in the end chose Shinden for the clean areodynamic design. The Henschel P75 had swept canard and main wing, which would give her high speed.
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 03:28 AM
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Canards normally don't have effective flaps. I expect a canard fighter plane would have higher landing speed, so would require a better airstrip and a more gentle landing approach. That's a disadvantage.
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 03:48 AM
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Canards normally don't have effective flaps. I expect a canard fighter plane would have higher landing speed, so would require a better airstrip and a more gentle landing approach. That's a disadvantage.
Had I have more servos at hand, I would add flaps after adding more power and retractable tricycle gear. There has to be flap-elevator mixing to maintain proper attitude, I guess.

I was expecting hot landing for my Shinden too, but she just floated in amazingly. Guess the off-scale big wing is helping the glide ratio.
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 10:32 AM
Visitor from Reality
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Nothing to do with model canards, but in a 12" = 1st fighter, that big prop on the back could really ruin an already bad day in the case of a hurried and very essential bail-out.

D
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 11:25 AM
What could possibly go wrong?
nickchud's Avatar
Market Harborough
Joined Apr 2006
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could really ruin an already bad day in the case of a hurried and very essential bail-out.
Ouch!

Mind you, I don't think health and safety were very high on the priorities in fighter design. I saw a programme recently about the pioneer of plastic surgery - sir Harold Gillies. Many of his patients were the victims of something called "hurricane rash", which was the result of flying a plane with the reserve fuel tank right in front of the cockpit. Terrible times!

Nick
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Old Jul 13, 2012, 01:25 PM
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edwen303
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Question: how do you think the high canard location and low battery location contribute to the stability of Shinden?
I believe that the ideal condition is to have the thrust line passing through the center of both wings and the CG. A high canard gives less risk of ground damage but with it's extra incidence will create drag above th CG which will rotate the nose upward at speed. A low battery position will add to the nose up rotation when UP elevator is applied in a dive due to it's inertia. If the battery is heavy and located under the canard wing, it's inertia could cause the canard to experience a high speed stall when trying to recover from a dive.The ideal location for the battery is at the CG but that may not be possible unless the canard is in front of a delta wing with tractor power.

Charles
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Old Jul 13, 2012, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by canard addict View Post
edwen303


I believe that the ideal condition is to have the thrust line passing through the center of both wings and the CG. A high canard gives less risk of ground damage but with it's extra incidence will create drag above th CG which will rotate the nose upward at speed. A low battery position will add to the nose up rotation when UP elevator is applied in a dive due to it's inertia. If the battery is heavy and located under the canard wing, it's inertia could cause the canard to experience a high speed stall when trying to recover from a dive.The ideal location for the battery is at the CG but that may not be possible unless the canard is in front of a delta wing with tractor power.

Charles
Thank you Charles for the valuable tips! I will definitely experiment more with those ideas in mind.

The Long EZ is simply elegant to look at and fly. The Shinden is on the other hand mean-looking. How is the high alpha characteristics for the Delta Duck?
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 05:42 AM
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edwen303
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The Long EZ is simply elegant to look at and fly. The Shinden is on the other hand mean-looking. How is the high alpha characteristics for the Delta Duck?
The Delta Duck has symmetrical airfoils with the main wing parallel to the thrust line. The canard was given an incidence of 2 degrees as I recall and the model had a high rate of climb at speed. A 1/32" shim under the canard's TE and 5 degrees of down thrust made a difference in the climb rate. A beautiful feature of the Duck is it's natural nose up glide angle which positions it for a three point landing every time. Thank you for your interest, edwen.

Charles
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 11:15 AM
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United States, MO, Springfield
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has any one tried a V-tail canard well i guess V nose? or would that not work
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