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Old Mar 07, 2007, 11:21 AM
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Solid Hit, Here's hoping for better news on the second try. I remember the John Denver crash in water,I believe, and it was pilot error. I am heading for the field now with The EZ and the Goose. Charles
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Old Mar 07, 2007, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid Hit
BTW, did anyone know that the Long EZ was the plane that singer John Denver was killed in?

Yup, Thats why I dubbed what gpw called the "dead duck spin" with the EZ Foam the "Joh Denver spin" in that forum.

Sorry to hear about you misfortunes but everybody has days like that. Sounds like you got it all repaired and ready to go. BTW, what kind of receiver was it?

Charles, It may be a while till I get my Voyager going because its in line behind a few other builds. It was given to me by a friend who didn't like the way it went together (form, fit and function and I agree, it was a pretty sloppy kit) and went and bought a RichModel smaller version. He should have it ready to maiden this weekend. Meanwhile, the Canard fever continues to grow at our field with more and more EZ Foam's showing up all the time. I guess passing out the super simple 1 sheet plans is paying off! Currently its my favorite plane for just buzzing around the field. It also handles wind alot better than any other plane I have. The full up elevator mode of flying around blows everybody away!

-Mike
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Old Mar 07, 2007, 12:54 PM
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Could you give me the link to those plans. I have a hunk of Depron here looking to become an airplane of some sort. Tom
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Old Mar 07, 2007, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid Hit
...BTW, did anyone know that the Long EZ was the plane that singer John Denver was killed in?
Yes, he had just bought the plane, and was flying it at very low altitude over the Pacific alongside the coast line. The builder had put the fuel selector valve in an awkward position. The alteration simplified some linkage, but to switch tanks, the pilot had to turn partway around in the seat and reach back behind. In the process, he inadvertently jabbed in some "down" elevator, and hit the water before he could recover.

Designers worry all the time about builders who ad-lib "improvements" to their carefully thought-out creations, often without fully understanding why it was designed a certain way originally. All too often the modifiers create "gotchas" and traps, some safety related. However, when the pane goes down, the original design tends to get the blame (and often the lawsuit), not the modification. It's stuff like this, and the liability risks in general, that caused Rutan to stop making the kits or selling plans.
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Old Mar 07, 2007, 02:50 PM
Just call me .... Bill
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Don, you were close. In the report I read he had to twist his body to the left and stretch back to reach the fuel switch. In the process, his right leg extended on the rudder and that caused the crash.

You are 100% correct though about amateurs changing things designers had well thought out.
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Old Mar 07, 2007, 03:21 PM
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Tom,

Build thread here and plans are on post 10. Excellent flyer! We made ours with a flat wing no dihedral. Flies just as good if not better and alot easier to build!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=424521

Don,

Shakespere was right, Kill all the Lawyers, kill them tonight!
Rutan really had to stop producing them? What a flipping rip!!

-Mike
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Old Mar 07, 2007, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid Hit
In the report I read he had to twist his body to the left and stretch back to reach the fuel switch.
Same difference. "Fuel switch" refers to the valve that switches tanks, or shuts them off completely. On the 'Eze it's supposed to be mounted on the left side, back in the rear cockpit, but with a long torque rod to a handle up in the forward cockpit. This one didn't have that, so the pilot had to twist around to the left and way behind to reach it.

I'm sure the report I read said that this motion, with his right hand still on the sidestick, resulted in a nose-down elevator input (the elevators on the Eze's are pretty sensitive and powerful). Rudder would have caused a yaw, which coupled with the wing sweep and winglets would produce a rolling effect, but not as great a nose-down effect as a little nudge on the elevators would do.

However, I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time. They say the first thing to go is the memory, and I forget what goes after that...
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Old Mar 07, 2007, 07:58 PM
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DB, Thanks for the repeat of the Boxy thread. I just may build myself one. It looks fun. I will also ask Randy at Model Airplane Engineering if he still has a plan to build one. Charles
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Old Mar 08, 2007, 04:46 PM
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Glad I found this thread.

I have had an idea to make a canard for a long time, and thought I would share about it here.

I scratch built a LykaJet from Model Airplane News plans years ago, and still have the original wing from it. It was a prop-jet plane for .45 power. I want to test out my canard configuration using a gutter downspout and quick built canard stabilizer, rear engine, and fixed landing gear. Eventually I would like fuselage retractable mains and a nose retract.

I am having various ideas about rudders and thought they should be as far aft as possible to maintain positive yaw stability, and maybe put the rudders downward with a small wheel on the bottom to replace main gear?

Is airfoil of the canard critical? I read on that canard C page that it needs a coef. Lift higher than the wing? What about engine thrust line? I was going to have the engine sit 2.5 above the wing pushing? Will this create a large down pitch moment if the thrust line is above the wing? I want this to be a very fast plane so any profile drag reduction and trim drag reduction is what I am trying to avoid.

Here is a model I created playing with wingtip fins, though I would like to have fuselage mounted fins if they provide enough yaw stability?
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Old Mar 09, 2007, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by canard addict
DB, Thanks for the repeat of the Boxy thread. I just may build myself one. It looks fun. I will also ask Randy at Model Airplane Engineering if he still has a plan to build one. Charles
No problem Charles! I also want to build one of the Slow Stick canard's which I think was your creation. I'll bet its a floater with the SS wing and just looks like its fun to fly in calm conditions. The only questions I have are the CG and is the taller wing support in the front of the wing? (which would make it higher in the front of the plane than the back.)

-Mike
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Old Mar 09, 2007, 01:39 PM
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Shinden build advice....

Charles

I just picked up the Shinden from Hobby-Lobby. I've noticed through reading this thread you fly it occasionally and early on have posted some build mods.

If it isn't too much trouble, could you summarize any important deviations you made from the (less than perfect) build instructions, e.g., power choice, CG location, bracing, etc.

Anything at all would be appreciated. I've looked around quite a bit and you're the only person I've heard build/fly one

If anyone has a link for this build, that'd be great.

Oh, btw, our club patriarch flies a 40 size Long Easy. Always gets a LOT of attention at the field. Very fast....
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Old Mar 09, 2007, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by The-Drake
Charles

I just picked up the Shinden from Hobby-Lobby. I've noticed through reading this thread you fly it occasionally and early on have posted some build mods.

If it isn't too much trouble, could you summarize any important deviations you made from the (less than perfect) build instructions, e.g., power choice, CG location, bracing, etc.
TD,
It may take a few days for Charles to get back to you as we flew together today here in Florida. I think he will head back home on Sunday. Congrats on the shinden. I designed my own from roughly the same size as the Hobby Lobby model. Charles and I flew the noon show at the Spring Hill Auto Gyro event and he flew his GA Goose and I flew my Shinden. They both fly well. I have attached a link here for you to review my version of the shinden. If you build with blue core, I have plans available.
Good luck with your Shinden C-YA RL
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...60#post6949860
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Old Mar 09, 2007, 09:40 PM
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Scratch Building...

Thanks IG,

Inasmuch as the scratch-build intrigues me, my family at this point in time gives me grief if I spend a few hours putting a foamie together Any spare time I am "allowed" for myself I prefer flying

Very nice planes you have there. Do you have a particular manufacturer of batteries, ESC's and motors you like to deal with? With these light foamies I'm going to invest in Lipos and brushless gear and am looking for advice regarding the same.

Great thread. I always like to be different and the canard design suits my style!
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Old Mar 11, 2007, 07:03 PM
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mr bisset, Take a look at post 43 for discussion on rudders and canard airfoil. The thrust line should be located to balance out the drag of the wings and fins. The canard picture you posted shows the thrust line well. It should be more in line with the main wing since it has the most drag.The-Drake. check out posts 32,33 and 40. I used the AXI 2204-54 with three cells and increased the canard area a little to get the COG a little more forward. Inspector Gadget has the perfect Shinden with canard size and his preferred angle of incidence. It is an unbelievable performer and I cannot add any comments to surpass his results. Mike, this thread has builds on the large and small Slow Sticks. They both penetrate the air with authority and are not the floaters like the conventional types.The small one has a negative angle of attack on the main wing. Both use 3.5 degrees of decalage. The COG came from our calculator used in this thread. I am happy to be home after spending the weekend near Spring Hill, Fl flying my Quaker and Ga. Goose at the Auto Gyro and Vintage meet there. Charles
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Old Mar 11, 2007, 07:34 PM
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Charles, it was great seeing you and Pat at Spring Hill. I saw you leaving the banquet Saturday night and wholy expected to see you out to the field on Sunday so I could say my goodby's. Not! You boogied out on me. We really appreciate you flying the Goose for the lunch break demo flights. A truly remarkable machine. Thanks again from the HCRCC gang. And your Quaker was a dream to watch. You are a great builder. One of the best I have seen in years. If not sooner, we'll see you at SEFF.
Now to get started on my Voyager Long EZ. Be back in a few days with a report. Tom
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