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Old Mar 21, 2011, 08:00 PM
Flying!!! Got to love it
raido56's Avatar
USA, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Jun 2006
589 Posts
Simprop Piaggio Avanti

Hello all, Went out flying yesterday. It was a great day here in the east yesterday for flying. Temp was about 60 and winds were lite at 5 to 10 mph. Wanted too fly my Simprop Piaggio Avanti that I picked up at a R/C flea market the week before. It was sold to me rec ready. She came with 2- Suppo 2217/8 motors, 2-30 amp ESC's, 2-Hitec HS-81 servos and 2-8x6 APC props. So after checking her out and adding some decals she went out to fly. Let me tell you it's one great flying plane. Rolls, loops and turns are great the planes flys like it's on rails. Landings are fun floats right in no problem. With this set up I was leaving some 40 size glow planes in the dust. It flys on a 3s 2200 30C pack for about 6 min no problem and I have some 3s 2650 40C packs comming in this week for her. So I hope to get about 8 min flying time with the larger packs. Here are a few pic's of her.

Keep em flying
raido56/ Herb
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 08:00 PM
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Paul, Page six, post 89 has a good shot of the nose gear and rudder on the Egret. The wire has two triangles of 1/8" balsa on either side of the wire.
Good luck with it and please show a picture if you will.
Charles
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 08:18 PM
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Herb, I know that you are delighted with that Avanti. Isn't it great to own a model which is beautiful, different and rare? Thanks for showing it. I wish they would come back to the market.
Charles
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Old Mar 22, 2011, 12:22 AM
Speed King
Idriveaboxster's Avatar
Orange County
Joined Sep 2007
414 Posts
Thanks for the help Charles!
Attached are a few pics of my first canard plane along with one of a new wing panel with the fuselage(or 2...). The first canard plane was made of elmers foam board and a hotwire cut 2-piece wing. It was a fun plane to fly, but the glue between the wing and fuselage sides came loose. This was a recurring problem and I took out the motor and receiver for my new flying wing after it spiraled and hit someone's garage. The plane had only 3 channel control, because rudder control would be impossible with wing tip vert. stabs. The aileron servo pictured controlled the nose wheel via flexible pushrod.
The new plane will have a very big wingspan and I plan to use it for high altitude video.

Paul
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Old Mar 22, 2011, 02:34 AM
What could possibly go wrong?
nickchud's Avatar
Market Harborough
Joined Apr 2006
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Avanti!

She's a beauty Herb. A real classic.

Nick
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Old Mar 22, 2011, 12:01 PM
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Thanks for showing, Paul. The Spring season is here for our pleasure. Please
have lots of fun.
Charles
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Old Mar 22, 2011, 12:36 PM
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Twin Canard Tail Dragger

My latest thoughts Take me away from the delta wings and back to the Georgia Goose style with a bit more sweep back angle similar to the old DC-3.
I love the taildragger with rear rudder and will attempt twin motors in spite of my laziness. The motors will be Dualskys rated at 150 watts to turn 7-5 props. The front airfoil will be symmetrical. The canard wing will be sized to bring the CG to near the center of the fuselage. The Eppler 197 was plotted for the main wing but it turned out to be almost flat bottomed so the top was shaved down and added to the bottom. Some will not like the thickness but maybe it will slow the model down a little. The wings will be without dihedral. It would be a pleasure to hear comments from each of you on what to expect from this model.
Charles
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Old Mar 22, 2011, 02:04 PM
Flying!!! Got to love it
raido56's Avatar
USA, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Jun 2006
589 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by canard addict View Post
Herb, I know that you are delighted with that Avanti. Isn't it great to own a model which is beautiful, different and rare? Thanks for showing it. I wish they would come back to the market.
Charles
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickchud View Post
Avanti!

She's a beauty Herb. A real classic.

Nick
Thanks guys, Yes she is a beautiful canard and flys as good as she looks. The only thing I am gonna add is some landing gears. This way if I am out flying I don't have to worry about having someone there to hand toss her for me. Plus I want to cut out a hatch on the bottom so I don't have to take the wing off every time to get the battery out. Yep they should bring her back along with the Multiplex Sonic Liner. They would sell a ton of them both here in the USA.

Keep em flying
raido56/ Herb
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Old Mar 22, 2011, 03:44 PM
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radio56/ Herb
Quote:
VYep they should bring her back along with the Multiplex Sonic Liner. They would sell a ton of them both here in the USA.

Keep em flying
raido56/ Herb
I agree
Charles
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Old Mar 22, 2011, 03:46 PM
What could possibly go wrong?
nickchud's Avatar
Market Harborough
Joined Apr 2006
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Herb!
How about a bungee launcher?
And don't forget the Beechcraft Starship! Another classic
Starship Flying (2 min 13 sec)
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Old Mar 23, 2011, 07:21 PM
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Nick, Thanks for that video. Beautiful country, sky and the king of canards.

Charles
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Old Mar 24, 2011, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canard addict View Post
My latest thoughts Take me away from the delta wings and back to the Georgia Goose style with a bit more sweep back angle similar to the old DC-3.
I love the taildragger with rear rudder and will attempt twin motors in spite of my laziness. The motors will be Dualskys rated at 150 watts to turn 7-5 props. The front airfoil will be symmetrical. The canard wing will be sized to bring the CG to near the center of the fuselage. The Eppler 197 was plotted for the main wing but it turned out to be almost flat bottomed so the top was shaved down and added to the bottom. Some will not like the thickness but maybe it will slow the model down a little. The wings will be without dihedral. It would be a pleasure to hear comments from each of you on what to expect from this model.
Charles
Hi Charles, Interesting idea. Does that mean you are going for a wing planfrom like the DC-3 with the constant chord inboard section, and swept back leading edge on the outboard panel?

Its a bit hard to comment on the dimensions from a technical point of view. Maybe if you post an image of the canard calculator screen shot, it would be easier to compare with other designs including the Contra. I'd like to consider the size of canard area when looking at this aspect.

I have some doubts about the E197 based airfoil you have posted, as I think the leading edge may be a bit too sharp. To allow more margin to prevent a main wing stall, I'd suggest using a larger radius leading edge. Maybe look at the leading edge detail from the NACA2412 in Lennon's book. The other thing you can do to delay the stall at low Re numbers is to move the point of maximum thickness forward a bit. The E197 has the maximum thickness at 34% chord, where as modern low Re airfoils often have it at around 27 to 30% for thermal glider airfoils, or back to around 31% for high speed models. Possibly the same comment may apply to your proposed canard airfoil. I think the airfoil used for the Duck may have had a larger leading edge radius if my memory serves, but please correct me if I am wrong.
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Old Mar 24, 2011, 10:58 AM
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John 235
Quote:
Hi Charles, Interesting idea. Does that mean you are going for a wing planfrom like the DC-3 with the constant chord inboard section, and swept back leading edge on the outboard panel?
I figured that you might ask that but for simplicity with a flat wing
I will stick to the Goose style with a smaller tip chord. Hopefully the dihedral effect will continue to work.

John
Quote:
Its a bit hard to comment on the dimensions from a technical point of view. Maybe if you post an image of the canard calculator screen shot, it would be easier to compare with other designs including the Contra. I'd like to consider the size of canard area when looking at this aspect.
The chuck glider will be built soon. Do you feel that the wings are too close together? There will be elevator and aileron control. The chuck glider's canard will be sized to place the CG near the middle of the fuselage. If the rear wing is moved rearward, it will drop downward. Would down wash be more or less of a problem? The rear wing will be reduced from 48" to 43" as it is on the Egret which fits into the sedan's trunk easier. The calculator's data will come after the wings aer positioned and the glider is trimmed.

John
Quote:
I have some doubts about the E197 based airfoil you have posted, as I think the leading edge may be a bit too sharp. To allow more margin to prevent a main wing stall, I'd suggest using a larger radius leading edge. Maybe look at the leading edge detail from the NACA2412 in Lennon's book. The other thing you can do to delay the stall at low Re numbers is to move the point of maximum thickness forward a bit. The E197 has the maximum thickness at 34% chord, where as modern low Re airfoils often have it at around 27 to 30% for thermal glider airfoils, or back to around 31% for high speed models. Possibly the same comment may apply to your proposed canard airfoil. I think the airfoil used for the Duck may have had a larger leading edge radius if my memory serves, but please correct me if I am wrong.
I noticed the sharp leading edges which just evolved from my sloppy french curve work. I am glad that you spotted it and it will be corrected. The crest will also be moved forward. I hope that the canard airfoil will present the quick stall of the Eppler 168. Thank you for your inputs.
Charles
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Old Mar 25, 2011, 05:46 AM
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Sydney, Australia
Joined Mar 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canard addict View Post
The chuck glider will be built soon. Do you feel that the wings are too close together? There will be elevator and aileron control. The chuck glider's canard will be sized to place the CG near the middle of the fuselage. If the rear wing is moved rearward, it will drop downward. Would down wash be more or less of a problem? The rear wing will be reduced from 48" to 43" as it is on the Egret which fits into the sedan's trunk easier. The calculator's data will come after the wings aer positioned and the glider is trimmed.
From your drawing it looks like the canard horizontal seperation is about 1.45 times the root wing chord. I think your models such as the Gerogie Goose used 20" le-le separation, which I think is 2.0 times the root wing chord. I recall that a later version of your high wing canard used 25" seperation, which is 2.5 times the root chord.

For the 32" canard model I built with semi-symmetrical main-wing airfoil, I used le-le seperation of 1.5 times the root wing chord and canard area 25% of the main wing. I used 0.6 taper ratio on the main wing, so probably mine has longer moment in terms of MAC. Mine is was a bit marginal in terms of elevator authority with elevator only, so it benefits from elevons for good control at low speeds. However my model is smaller so it will suffer more due to lower Reynolds numbers than your proposed 48" span model.

With a semi-symetrical airfoil on the main wing I expect you need less than the 20" le-le horizontal seperation used on the earlier Georgia goose. In my best guess, the figure of 1.45 times the root chord may be 'border-line' workable based on my experience with my own model. I am assuming, 1) that you use at least 25% canard area relative to the main wing. 2) That the negative pitching moment of of your airfoil will be no worse than the NACA1411 airfoil I used on my model.

If it was my design I'd probably add an inch or two extra horizontal seperation so it comes to at least 1.6 times the root chord. If you end up building the model and still have insufficient elevator authority, you could change the ailerons to work as elevons as a contingency.
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Last edited by John235; Mar 25, 2011 at 05:59 AM.
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Old Mar 27, 2011, 10:59 AM
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John 235
Quote:
From your drawing it looks like the canard horizontal seperation is about 1.45 times the root wing chord. I think your models such as the Gerogie Goose used 20" le-le separation, which I think is 2.0 times the root wing chord. I recall that a later version of your high wing canard used 25" seperation, which is 2.5 times the root chord.
John, the rear wing is back to a separation of 2 chords now. Will move the front wing forward a bit to help more. The design did not look right when the top view was drawn. A model must look correct in my opinion. Thanks for your help.
Charles
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