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Old Jan 28, 2011, 11:10 AM
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Trevor
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Charles, flattery will get you (almost) everywhere,
Not flattery but heartfelt appreciation with a bit of envy on the side.

Trevor
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maybe if I do get around to the MkII Stanger,
It was dumb of me to misspell Stanger's name. I apologize and hope no one was offended.

Regarding the drawing of plans: My goal is to design a simple to build strong structure which will resist warping. The fun comes from building it and seeing if if the goals are achieved.
Charles
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 12:07 PM
What could possibly go wrong?
nickchud's Avatar
Market Harborough
Joined Apr 2006
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Triple Wot

It flew! and landed in one piece! However something went wrong and the landing was a near squeak, in the wrong place. I have to wait for tomorrow evening before I will have a chance to do any diagnostics.

Have you heard of an approach-approach conflict? The same as the donkey who starved to death because he was equidistant between two bales of hay. This weekend was pretty good for flying, bright and sunny, calm but cold - very good for the end of January. However, I had another attractive "bale of hay" to consider and it prevailed.

Cindy and I have bought a little 2-up-2-down cottage in the Cotswolds as a fixer-upper. I'ts been empty for 25 years. We got the keys on Thursday and spent the weekend filling a skip with moldy carpets, beds with mouse nests in them, all that good stuff. We got pretty carried away with the lump hammer, knocking down walls too.

Monday afternoon, I bunked off work (that's an English expression which I'm sure you'll understand) and took my contraption to the flying field. The sun was low and the wind - about 6mph I guess - was coming exactly from that direction. There was a bit of scooting around on the ground to get used to the ailerons and rudders, I think I may have damaged one of the motor mounts whilst bumping along. Then I tried the elevator and we took off. Trying to turn away from the sun at about 25 ft up, I think something mechanical went wrong and she stalled. No real damage done, but it was time to come home and see what needs to be fixed.

I'm not sure when the next fine weather will be. But I've whetted my appetite and you can be sure there will be another attempt soon.

Watch this space!

Nick
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 03:55 PM
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Well done on surviving the maiden - and acquiring all that extra hangar space too!
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 04:48 PM
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Hi Nick
Great to hear she (it? Them???) got up, flew around and got back down in about the same shape it started. At least you know you're on the right track with this 'formation'.

A 25 yr old cottage! You hear about places like that on HGTV (Home & Garden TV, in US speak) Good luck with that one, it should keep you quiet for a week or two. We only got to the Cotswolds a couple of times, it is a lovely area.

Regards
Dereck
Whose canard plan is bubbling steadily upwards...
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 09:42 PM
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Nickchud
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It flew! and landed in one piece!
Great news, Nick! Three 28 inch models together would be a sight to see. I'm glad they were not damaged.

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Dereck
Whose canard plan is bubbling steadily upwards...
Dereck, A Clancy canard might get your attention and ours too.

Charles
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 08:42 AM
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Hi Charles
Well, its not actually a 'Eeb Yzal' but it is a Very Short Canard that could be said to be a little 'flashy'.

A little basic compared to some around here and completely boring compared to Nick's 'TripleWot' which not only takes the biscuit, but runs off with the tea service, as possibly the most extrovert version of the WOT line.

One day, in the midst of a snowstorm, must make a foamy profile of the 'Eeb Ysal', take it down to our garage and see if it will commit aviation in good order.

D
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 10:05 AM
What could possibly go wrong?
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Eeb Ysal - I geddit!

Dereck

That'll fly for sure. I'm still not so sure the Triple Wot will fly safely.

Over on the Polaris thread they seem to have forgotten about airfoils completely. My little mini-Polaris gets about very well with a delta wing made from flat foam board stiffened by cf strips. I think your Eeb Ysal might too.

I know a flat board is an airfoil, just a very thin symmetrical one. But you know what I mean. Perhaps a long, thin wing needs a thicker airfoil.

Apart from the obvious structural benefit of a thicker airfoil, at what point do we need to discard the flat board and use a conventional one?

Nick
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 11:49 AM
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Hi Nick

Many years ago, before I left the Olde Country, a buddy of mine upscaled an old FF canard - would have to dive under the bed into the plans file, but I think it was one of Vic Smeed's. Regretably slimey, it started life with one of those US produced 'Ace RC' moulded foam wings around 36" span. It also had a flat plate canard - beyond that it was pretty orthodox with a pusher engine. It flew fine best I ever saw. In fact, I found a handy magazine editor at Old Warden, hand-launched the device for the designer who demo'd it for said editor and 'sold' him on publishing it as a full sized pull out plan in dear old Radio Modeller magazine.

The only real issue is that one concentrates very hard on hand-launching a pusher The trick is a hefty, straight throw that rapidly removes the hand downwards and out the way of that prop on the back.

That model's also been electrocuted, though am lacking in details. The perpetrator of that party trick reported good flying habits too.

Though I defer to Don S, who can spell 'aerodynamics' with a degree of reliability, we mostly seek a different looking model to the herd and one that possesses a degree of success. Unlike the full scale world and our own model sized competition aims, efficiencies of many natures, need to make a profit and suchlike are not are that important. Good flying manners and that degree of difference are more to our taste.

To demonstrate - if I show up at a meeting with a regular Lazy Bee and a similar sized 'Eeb Yzal', I figure all the latter has to do is take off, get around the field in fairly steady fashion and land. If you think that's a little 'interesting', somewhere in my 'files' is a lovely doodle of how the Avro Lancaster would have looked if it had been built as a canard.

Not that I have the spare time to run one up, but it looks to have all the right areas in the right places and a suitable CG would be achievable too.

Hope you persevere with the Triple Wot. Formations of similar ilk have flown well over the years - yours is just tastefully re-arranged.

Good luck with it/them

Dereck
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 12:22 PM
What could possibly go wrong?
nickchud's Avatar
Market Harborough
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Long EZ with flat panel wings

Here's a cheap and cheerful Long EZ..
showing the whole build
I bet there's a pretty good chance it's already been on this thread, but I added it again 'cos it's a very easy to build canard model.

If it were mine, I'd use 2 thickness of Depron for the wings and bend them to make an airfoil. Also, I'd cheat to the extent of using ailerons that go all the way to the wingtips. I don't think that little outboard part of the wing TE serves any purpose except to put more strain on the structure, especially considering that tip fins will compound the problem.

I just prefer to use 3 dimensional wings instead of flat panels and they're not very difficult to build.

Cheers

Nick
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by canard addict View Post
This thread is for present and future canard lovers to show pictures, tell of their experiences or just ask questions about the techniques of building a successful canard. There seems to be a growing interest in canards. Sig had the Tri-Star, Multiplex,the Sonic Liner,Raidentech and Richmodels, the Long EZ and Quickie,Gunderson Aero, the S1 slope soarer and Hobby Lobby, the Shinden to name a few. There are always questions about the center of gravity and many models have been damaged before finding it. I will start by showing my first canard, The GWS Slow Stick conversion. It was built in haste in 2004 when I was anxious to put my new found knowledge to work from a book by Andy Lennon entitled "The Basics of Model Aircraft Design". It is from the publisher of Model Airplane news, Air Age Publishing Co. The Slow Stick is probably the most popular ARF which is suitable for canard conversion. The GWS Pico Stick, the Wingo from Hobby Lobby and the Soar Star are also good candidates. My GWS Slow Stick had the EPS 300 geared motor with the 11-8 orange prop. The model flew like a dream. It always pleases the onlookers and I love to share the controls with other modelers. I will attach pictures here and hope to provide all the details of construction. Build Logs index 11 models: Page 182, post 2723

Your design intrigues me.....
Set your wayback machine to 20 years ago, I traded some stuff for an RC place and super tigre 60 and 7 channel cirrus....
First flight ended with with a destroyed plane and busted sliding glass door.

I eventually did get solo'd after a rebuild and help from some new friends, but it was not without mishaps. Then life moved on and the RC stuff got shedded for 20 years. I pulled everything out of the shed and took inventory and that leads me to today.

I have what I started piecing together from the wing scraps from the 60 sized Ugly Stick, two wing sections with epoxied together. So its 18 to 24" wide and a flat stab sticking out the front, I remember originally it was going to be a flying wing or so I hoped at that time.
Now I'm thinking it would be perfect for a conversion to your canard ugly stick.
With at 24" wingspan, and 12" chord, and the roughly 1" thick air foil, I need some help.

How far forward does the Canard need to be?
How do you calculate the size needed?
I'm thinking its going to be electric powered, so a 3S Lipo pack, and not really sure on the motor/prop size.
I can work all that out once/if I get around to assembling it and have a weight. It will be light.

Thanks
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 09:25 PM
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Caish
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Now I'm thinking it would be perfect for a conversion to your canard ugly stick.
With at 24" wingspan, and 12" chord, and the roughly 1" thick air foil, I need some help.

How far forward does the Canard need to be?
How do you calculate the size needed?
Caish, I assume that you meant the Slow Stick? I would make the distance between the leading edges about 21 inches. The canard wing's area should be about 30% of the main wing's area of 288. I figure the canard wing span as 14 inches and the chord 6 inches. Mount the main wing at zero incidence and the canard at about plus 3.5 degrees. Find the CG with the canard center of gravity calculator on the web. The battery will balance it to the rear of the canard's TE. The CG will be about 3 inches ahead of the wing's LE. The last two sentences are just guesses from what I have seen on past models. Please check out the layout of the Slow stick build near the front of this thread. Add a couple of vertical fins to the wing tips. Glue them to the wing tips and let them extend rearward about 3 inches behind the TE. I would make them about 6 inches tall and 6 inches deep. Look on page 182, post 2723 to see the proportions of the canards shown. If alignments are accurate, it is hard to build a stick which will not fly. If you can show us your proposed three views, We may offer more suggestions. I hope you enjoy your new adventure.
Charles
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 11:01 PM
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Thanks Canard Addict,
I said Ugly Stick and thats what I meant. It was produced with many names. But the main one twenty years ago was Ugly Stick.

Found a picture of some on the net.
I'm not an artist so I cut n pasted something together, for a top view anyway.
Its the actual wing shape anyway.

I don't plan on it being pretty just a design concept and a toss around that might handle trainer like that my kids could fly too.
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 01:37 AM
What could possibly go wrong?
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Joined Apr 2006
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Canard CoG Calculator

Indispensable!

Good luck

Nick
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 12:01 PM
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Caish, Thanks for the extra info. With a 48 by 12 wing the area is 576. With a 30% canard it would be 25 by 7. For the distance between LE's you can judge the proportions by the pictures but it seems that 26 inches is about right. The canard needs to be well above the ground to keep it safe. The CG needs to be about at the center of the fuselage. You can move it forward by increasing the area of the canard or extending it forward. The motor needs to be close in for good balance. Final balance can be achieved by choosing the battery weight. I like long ailerons and canard elevators. Remember that down elevators will cause a climb. The main LG should be about even with the wing's LE. I like about 100 watts per pound but keep it light as possible.
The above is what my mind's eye interprets now. Please keep us informed.
Charles
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Old Feb 06, 2011, 10:30 AM
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I found the following interesting which could apply to a delta short coupled canard . From Wikipedia. Charles

Close-coupled canardIn the close-coupled canard, the foreplane is located just above and forward of the main wing. At high angles of attack the canard surface directs airflow downwards over the wing, reducing turbulence which results in reduced drag and increased lift.[10]
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