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Old Jan 02, 2011, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 50mph View Post
So I am thinking I need to engineer ailerons on the wing. It was only a thought. The kit call for the canard and rudder on the tips. I was thinking adding ailerons would give me more fun while flying.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...07&postcount=1

the above is what is on RC Groups, not much to help but it does show the kit and pictures.

thanks for your reply
Did you read all the posts in that thread?

Uli
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Old Jan 02, 2011, 04:11 AM
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Canary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Stackhouse View Post
...
In a plane with rudder+dihedral in place of ailerons, the RUDDER is the primary roll control, and therefore the rudder should be plugged into the aileron channel on the receiver.

Of course with a modern computer transmitter there is another option. Mix the aileron channel 100% into the rudder channel, and then you can steer the airplane equally well with the right or the left stick.
...
That's how I do it too and it works just fine.

The Canary is a very fine bird. I have flown it again just yesterday (and the day before).

I remember a German Thread, where people built ailerons into the Canary. You can do that, but it is not necessary.
Instead, people at the airfield are often wondering how THAT rudder works.
(The rudder flaps are only moving from the center position to the outward position)

Uli
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Last edited by G_eronimo; Jan 02, 2011 at 04:16 AM. Reason: added picture
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Old Jan 02, 2011, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canard addict View Post
50 mph, Is that ducted fan power at the rear? The model looks slow and graceful to me. Without speed or air to the prop coming over the wings, rudder control may be best for the Canary. As Don said in effect, the designer deserves credit. The model has appeared on this thread before.
Charles
No EDF, the picture has the props folded. I do have EDFs, the Euro Fighter has fucntional canards.

Here is my CAM folding push prop.


Anyway I came here to ask the experts, and after reading the replys I will take the advice and stick to the plans provided. I will show my progress and get some pictures up.
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Old Jan 02, 2011, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G_eronimo View Post
That's how I do it too and it works just fine.

The Canary is a very fine bird. I have flown it again just yesterday (and the day before).

I remember a German Thread, where people built ailerons into the Canary. You can do that, but it is not necessary.
Instead, people at the airfield are often wondering how THAT rudder works.
(The rudder flaps are only moving from the center position to the outward position)

Uli
yes, it is something to talk about when other see how the rudder works.

Nice Canary you have there
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Old Jan 02, 2011, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G_eronimo View Post
Did you read all the posts in that thread?

Uli
Yes I read through all the posts I could find on the Graupner Cananry.
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Old Jan 02, 2011, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickchud View Post
That Canary is a beauty. I agree with Don about giving the designer credit. IMHO this one was designed for cruising around gently.

However, I'm not one of those people who can let well alone. I like to fly with ailerons+rudder. I built an Aquastar kit a few years ago and I had great success with removing the dihedral and adding ailerons, with just a little differential, ie a couple of mm up on each aileron in the neutral position. As I remember it, the aileron panels were about 80% of the span and 10% of the chord.

If the Canary were mine, I'd do the same.

What could possibly go wrong?

Nick
The worst could be when I take another trip back to Germany pick up another one. But I still like canard addict comment about ducted fan, now that would be something.....maybe a 20 or 30mm fan.
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Old Jan 04, 2011, 07:58 AM
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Hey everyone,
Check out this thread and scratch build of a Shindlin.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1353541

Conehead
Orrin Eldred
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Old Jan 05, 2011, 07:05 AM
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Thanks for the link, Orrin, I enjoyed it. The Shinden was a fast canard from the last period of World War 2 which was designed to intercept bombers. A small model of it needs lots of power to perform well as I see it.
Charles
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Old Jan 05, 2011, 09:08 AM
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From the video Charles, I thought he was going to park it in the trees the first time around. The Shinden seemed fast to me, I think a lot faster than I had thought. I thought the whole model was a very good version of the original.
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Old Jan 10, 2011, 11:23 AM
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Hi Guys

I'm thinking about a new project.
It is very loosely base from the Graupner harpoon 2 I saw recently.
30 in span
3 channel or may be 4
weight: should be about 32ozs
hand launched

I only designed 2 successful canards before so I liked to read your opinions or suggestions before I take time to draft the plan.

canard area: 16.5% of the main wing
sections: I thinking about a modified S3016 for the main wing and S3021 for the canard.
decalage: 2.5 to 3 degrees?
elevator or all moving canard? If elevator what percentage?

Tony
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Last edited by Perdu; Jan 10, 2011 at 11:29 AM.
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Old Jan 10, 2011, 12:41 PM
What could possibly go wrong?
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Nice one Tony!

In case you're thinking of building that wing out of Depron, there's a really good video of how to build a plane with an airfoil like that here. It's very quick and easy. I built a Starship wing using the same system, here. What I would do if I was starting today is to include cf strips to strengthen the spars, prob'ly 6mm.

Good luck whatever!

cheers

Nick
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Old Jan 10, 2011, 01:02 PM
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Hi Nick

Thanks for the links, I like the method.
Usually I build with balsa and draw a plan before but it takes time. more than building the plane itself.

Tony
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Old Jan 11, 2011, 06:24 AM
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Perdu Tony
Quote:
canard area: 16.5% of the main wing
sections: I thinking about a modified S3016 for the main wing and S3021 for the canard.
decalage: 2.5 to 3 degrees?
elevator or all moving canard? If elevator what percentage?
That is a pretty design, Tony. I feel sure that it will fly well. I would let the main wing's airfoil be parallel to the thrust line and add about one degree positive to the canard angle of attack. My Delta Duck had about two degrees up front and wanted to climb too fast. A degree or two of down thrust would probably be good. Nickchud has had experience with the canard sweep angle on his Starship and may offer suggestions on his preferred angle. The elevator at 25 to 30% of the canard chord would be my preference. Your wing design looks good. I was thinking of adding some similar tips sections on a future Delta after hearing Nick's views in December. Some day we will have a perfect canard design. I was recently impressed with Hobby Lobby's Eurofighter at our club field. Please Show your progress along the way.
Charles
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Old Jan 11, 2011, 11:43 AM
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Thanks Charles

That is why I love this thread, by reading you and others experience and information.
I was planned to make at least 2.5 degrees decalage.
Quote:
I would let the main wing's airfoil be parallel to the thrust line and add about one degree positive to the canard angle of attack.
But you're worrying me about the choice of section now, I'm not good at reading the sections tables but if I understand properly these sections I proposed are only 1 degree difference stall angle. Main wing S3016 and Canard S3021 add the one degrees decalage, so you think a 2 degrees stalled angle different is enough margin of error to make sure that the canard stalled first.

Tony
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Old Jan 11, 2011, 03:06 PM
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Perdu Tony
Quote:
But you're worrying me about the choice of section now, I'm not good at reading the sections tables but if I understand properly these sections I proposed are only 1 degree difference stall angle. Main wing S3016 and Canard S3021 add the one degrees decalage, so you think a 2 degrees stalled angle different is enough margin of error to make sure that the canard stalled first.
Tony, this is open for discussion but if it were my model with tractor power, I would draw the plans with both airfoil's reference lines at minus 1.5 degrees. This would give alpha zero on the main wing and alpha plus one up front. The two degree stall difference at zero power seems like enough to me and the down thrust with added power would be in your favor as I see it.
Charles
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