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Old Jan 22, 2010, 06:46 PM
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Hey guys, just wanted to give you an update on the spiderhawk. I took her way high and did a full throttle dive. about halfway down, screaming like a dive bomber the wings started fluttering so bad the prop actually broke the left rear control horn and the impact broke the motor loose. Brought her in for an emergency landing but the variable cg and wind took her over a hill and out of line of site. She survived a lawn dart landing with only slight compression of the front fuse. All repairs have been done, the tape/hot glue hinges replaced with dubro hinges, and all the clevises have been upgraded.

I plan to do a short vid this weekend (weather willing), and while I wanted to build a bigger more glider like version, I have wanted to go for speed for a while now and will be entering a small simple pusher canard for the 2010 flat foom challenge, so my energy will be focused on that this weekend. It is called the firehawk! Pictures will be in the contest thread, but I'll throw some out on here too when its built.

Charles- Hurry up and get that three surface thing in the air! can't wait to see it!

Nick- Thanks for posting the bit about roll bending the foam, never seen that before. I will try to use it in the next generation spiderhawk.
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Old Jan 22, 2010, 08:57 PM
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Cybernaught
Quote:
I have some ideas for a small sport/stunt flier with a similar layout.
My goal is decent looks, quick build and good performance with a BW power train.



That looks really sharp,Steve. Will it balance about the last third of the wing?


Jetman 123
Quote:
Charles- Hurry up and get that three surface thing in the air! can't wait to see it!



It's coming along very well. Miraculously, the Egret wings with just a bit of canard tip reduction matched the glider upscale perfectly. I am excited enough to actually work on it everyday. So far, on past projects, luck has been with me with build on line and hope for the best but this time with an extra wing to cloud matters, I dread the maiden attempt. The drawings exactly match the hand glider scaled up by a factor of 2.7. My trust in the glider comes from it demonstrating nose oscillation showing canard stall when tail heavy. The balance point is out in front of the main wing's LE as it was for the canard designs. There is barely enough space between the CG and the wing's LE to put the landing gear. A longer nose may be the answer for this style and will be used if this one flies poorly or not at all. I will post pictures as progress is made.
Charles
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Old Jan 23, 2010, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by canard addict View Post
Cybernaught

...That looks really sharp,Steve. Will it balance about the last third of the wing?...
Problems, Charles

Whisper flew but it's a real handful and above my experience level. I need to think about it. Too much for me to handle. Very responsive. No expo on the transmitter either. At speed the roll rate is too much and slowed down it hardly responds. Only decent flight wound up in a Coco tree.
Not enough decent video to bother uploading. It was too windy as well.

New design has problems too. With a forward swept wing you need a central fuselage so gear can be in the front for balance. With boomers it's the opposite. Swept back wing keeps the CG back so a light nose will work OK. I fabricated a wing with a lot of forward sweep and with a reasonable sized canard It'll be a real job to balance it.

Time to do some thinking. Maybe back up 5 yards and punt! I think the Georgia Goose is a good layout. Straight wing, basically and reasonable sized canard well forward.

Steve.
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Old Jan 23, 2010, 12:29 PM
What could possibly go wrong?
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Joined Apr 2006
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She survived a lawn dart landing with only slight compression of the front fuse. All repairs have been done,
Well done Jetman ... outstubborn her.

Steve. I like your twin boom idea. If I did mine again I think I'd put a bit of dihedral in. As is, she does a mean knife edge. Doesn't even try to roll upright without some control input. I took her out today, looking for a pond, but my usual one is not flooded enough yet. Though I did fly from a large puddle on the sports field. The puddle is about 15ft and the plane didn't take off without another 15ft across the grass on the other side. Light not good enough to bother with a video. I don't know if I can help with the Whisper. Trial and error? Stability usually comes from Centre of Lift and Centre of Lateral Area behind the CoG, and a bit of dihedral or high wing to control the roll. But you already knew that.

cheers guys

Nick
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Old Jan 23, 2010, 12:54 PM
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Cybernaught
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Whisper flew but it's a real handful and above my experience level. I need to think about it. Too much for me to handle. Very responsive. No expo on the transmitter either. At speed the roll rate is too much and slowed down it hardly responds. Only decent flight wound up in a Coco tree.
Not enough decent video to bother uploading. It was too windy as well.
Steve, Too bad, you do not deserve two problems in a row after all your hard work. My best guess about the roll Problems: The top side down step of the airfoil may get into turbulence at slow speeds and ruin the top aileron function. At the same time the bottom aileron surface which has smooth air flow may, in the DOWN position, cause brake action which acts as differential to put the opposite tip forward and cancel what little roll action is on that side with UP aileron. Think of the left wing with DOWN aileron pulling the left wing rearward with drag. This puts the left wing tip into the wind which rolls it upward. The right wing's UP aileron cannot, because of turbulence, lower the tip. At high speeds, the wind hits the UP aileron with smooth force since it gets a clean break at the down step. I would do two things: 1, file the sharp edge off at the down step. 2, Reposition the servo arms by 45 degrees forward toward the wing's LE so that DOWN aileron movement is decreased. That is IF you are using two servos.
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Old Jan 23, 2010, 01:27 PM
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Georgia Goose Data

Cybernaught
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Time to do some thinking. Maybe back up 5 yards and punt! I think the Georgia Goose is a good layout. Straight wing, basically and reasonable sized canard well forward.

Steve, I'm glad you like the Goose. It is rock solid stable with plenty of response at all speeds. If you build it, it will fly. The front span, center chord and tip chord measurements are 23, 6.5, 4.5". Same for rear wing are 48, 10, 6.5". The center chords are constant inside the fuselage. The fuselage width is 3" main wing and 2.5" front wing. The front wing has 3.5 degrees positive incidence and the rear wing is at zero. Distance between leading edges is 25". From front wing's LE to CG is 20.5. The ailerons are full length at 1.5" wide. The elevators are full length at 1.75" wide. My model weighs 32 ounces with 200 watts input. The fins are larger than a hand. The picture will show details. The wings have no dihedral.
Charles
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Old Jan 23, 2010, 05:24 PM
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United States, NM, Albuquerque
Joined Sep 2009
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rich models long ez (canard) HELP

Ok if anyone could help me It should be canard addict here is my problem.

anyone out there build the richmodels long ez????
Holy smokes the instructions on this are unbelievable, and never building a canard I am going nuts. My question is on the front canard (elev.) they are using the torque rods I had to straighten them but one is longer then the other and You have to push them flush up against the wing to slide the canard through the fuse, now that it is in there how the heck do you get anything on the rods and what do you use to control both rods im lost. I keep telling myself I will not buy these china kits but here i go with another, ya just can't beat the price. Any help would greatly be appreciated.
thanks
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Old Jan 23, 2010, 07:53 PM
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2.4 ghz, Look here at my build thread post 24 which shows how I connected to the elevator. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...long+ez&page=2 If it is the 55" Long EZ Voyager, there is a build log in this thread. I cut out the bottom to get to the elevator as shown after post 24.


2.4 ghz
Quote:
anyone out there build the richmodels long ez????
Holy smokes the instructions on this are unbelievable, and never building a canard I am going nuts. My question is on the front canard (elev.) they are using the torque rods I had to straighten them but one is longer then the other and You have to push them flush up against the wing to slide the canard through the fuse, now that it is in there how the heck do you get anything on the rods and what do you use to control both rods im lost. I keep telling myself I will not buy these china kits but here i go with another, ya just can't beat the price. Any help would greatly be appreciated.
thanks


I hope someone out there can recognize your picture and will help.
Charles
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Old Jan 23, 2010, 08:12 PM
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Evader 3 Surface Wing

The base was put down. Ribs will lay on top between front and rear edges. The center spars top and bottom are 3/32" spruce. Bottom cap strips will not be added to save weight. The rear wing built already weighs 7 grams.
Charles
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Old Jan 24, 2010, 02:32 AM
Onward through the fog.
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Bohol Philippines
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Originally Posted by canard addict View Post
The base was put down. Ribs will lay on top between front and rear edges. The center spars top and bottom are 3/32" spruce. Bottom cap strips will not be added to save weight. The rear wing built already weighs 7 grams.
Charles
Balsa over plans with waxed paper in between. I can smell the Ambriod.

Anyone under 60 know what Ambroid is?

Steve
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Old Jan 24, 2010, 03:47 AM
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Good start Charles! I'm watching.

Quote:
Anyone under 60 know what Ambroid is?
Haemorrhoid cream?

Nick
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Old Jan 24, 2010, 06:47 AM
Onward through the fog.
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Haemorrhoid cream?
No! I'll give you a hint. It was used in the good old days before CAs were available and you had to be old enough to buy it because kids were squirting it into paper bags and inhaling the fumes to get high. I used it on CL models back in the good old days. Late '60s!
anyone remember the Ringmaster, Flight Streak, Voodoo, or Winder?
Fox 36X-BB on a pressure tank setup??
Pen bladders and hemostats???


New Bird underway. It started as a smaller version of the Georgia Goose but the thing morphed into what I call the "Gosling"... I reduced your original WS, Charles, to 40" span and split the sweep between the LE and TE. I reduced size to about 80% so I could use the BW power train with a 500mah batt. I'm shooting for 16oz or less RTF. It has about 3sq ft of area and I'd like to bring it in at less than 6oz/sq ft.

Steve.
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Old Jan 24, 2010, 09:07 AM
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Is Ambroid the same as rubber cement? Nice canard build and experimentations you folks have here. Interesting.

^R^
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Old Jan 24, 2010, 11:25 AM
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Is Ambroid the same as rubber cement?
^R^
No. Rubber Cement is a contact cement.
It is a cement that comes in a tube, like tooth-paste, and is cellulose based.
Ambroid is/was a brand that was very popular at the LHS for balsa and tissue models when I first started in model airplanes. It was pretty much all we had except for carpenter's glue, like Elmer's etc. It cost more but dried or cured in about 20 minutes. Back then, the white glues seemed to take forever to work. (Still do !)

In the '60s the construction was stick and Japanese tissue painted with "dope". My first (flying) model was a profile Ringmaster built that way with an old McCoy Red-Head 35 bolted on the front. I think I started using Monocoat around 1972 or so. Not sure.

The "good old days" weren't that good. Today, cheap electronics and foam construction make the hobby much better. Back then I was building, perhaps 5 models a year, if that. A crash was a disaster that could easily destroy 3 months of work. Now I build as many as 3 planes a week and a crash is fixed in 5 minutes most of the time.

Here is a link to a page about: "Adhesives used for Model Building"
http://www.airfieldmodels.com/inform...cellulose_glue

Canards Rule!

Steve.
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Old Jan 24, 2010, 12:00 PM
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Joined Sep 2009
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Thank you,Thank you.
I did read the thread and it was very helpful and I have it already done. Boy I sure do love this site.
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