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Old Nov 23, 2008, 08:21 PM
Jets are for kids-of all ages
Florida, USA
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Don,
Truce. I was just saying that I kind of like Deltas, actually my first love is the Rutan influenced canards. Velocity, Cozy, and of course the Rutan designs themselves. I know the French are Delta crazy, or is that just crazy...., Nearly every Mirage has it, and even the new front line Fighters from France are Deltas. But I like everything you said, you obviously know your aerodynamics. Thanks for the imput and the exchange of ideas. I just like to add my two cents, every once and a while.
Roger
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Old Nov 23, 2008, 09:38 PM
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Roger, Thanks for the enforcer pictures. Is it aileron- elevator control?
Charles
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Old Nov 23, 2008, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullinspsm
... I was just saying that I kind of like Deltas,
So do I.

Quote:
actually my first love is the Rutan influenced canards. Velocity, Cozy, and of course the Rutan designs themselves.
I happen to have a partially finished VarEze (full-scale, not model) out in my barn. Unfortunately, I will probably never finish it, an unusual combination of circumstances stalled the project, and by the time I was in a position to start working on it again, my needs in an aircraft had changed.

Quote:
I know the French are Delta crazy, or is that just crazy...., Nearly every Mirage has it, and even the new front line Fighters from France are Deltas...
Just as in the case of the A4, for a transonic/supersonic fighter they can make a lot of sense. Deltas are great for helping things like "area rule", minimizing spar weight for a given strength, and squeezing more fuel into a wet wing, while still keeping the airfoil's percent thickness slim enough to avoid Mach problems.

However, as we discussed, the reasons that make them so attractive for that mission profile generally do not apply for what we're trying to accomplish. There are also problems that are more significant in our regime than in a full-scale jet fighter. The net result is that we can use a delta, but we pay a cost for the cool appearance in the form of lost performance and possible handling problems.

If we acknowledge these issues up front during the design process, there are ways of at least partially compensating for them, such as planning for more power, designing for a lower wing loading, and making tweaks in the airfoil selections and twist along the span to help improve handling. Although we probably can't take a concept that has fundamental problems in our operating environment and turn it into a world-class top performing competition model in spite of itself, we can certainly make a good sport or scale model that has decent performance and handling, and still has that "cool" appearance.
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Old Nov 23, 2008, 11:51 PM
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Alright, it's been a while, but I manged to finish the design I was talking about. I present to you the:
YF-24

This is drawn in AutoCAD, so you'll have to excuse the poor render quality.

This is almost the final version of my RC airplane design. Just needs some minor dimension changes, mainly the fuselage size (width).

Summary:
1) ~40 inch wingspan length
3) ~55 inch total length
4) all plane angles based on 40 degree dimension
5) Two 6x4 props
6) 3D Thrust Vector Engines
7) Taileerons move with engine nozzles (up/down Only)
8) Canards and Tailerons allow for PITCH
9) Split aierons and engines allow for YAW control
10) Split ailerons and Tailerons allow for ROLL


So... here's the design concept:

http://fc38.deviantart.com/fs38/f/20...y_Dredogol.jpg


So, what do you guys think?
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Old Nov 24, 2008, 12:16 AM
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United States, GA, Atlanta
Joined Apr 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dredogol
Alright, it's been a while, but I manged to finish the design I was talking about. I present to you the:
YF-24

This is drawn in AutoCAD, so you'll have to excuse the poor render quality.

This is almost the final version of my RC airplane design. Just needs some minor dimension changes, mainly the fuselage size (width).

Summary:
1) ~40 inch wingspan length
3) ~55 inch total length
4) all plane angles based on 40 degree dimension
5) Two 6x4 props
6) 3D Thrust Vector Engines
7) Taileerons move with engine nozzles (up/down Only)
8) Canards and Tailerons allow for PITCH
9) Split aierons and engines allow for YAW control
10) Split ailerons and Tailerons allow for ROLL

So, what do you guys think?
Looks pretty cool, but you're going to want some vertical stabilizer(s). And I'd forget the leading edge flaps as well, because they'll just add complexity and weight.

Are the split ailerons supposed to be for roll control or yaw control?

Designing planes in CAD is fun!

Dan
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Old Nov 24, 2008, 07:39 AM
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dredogol, That is impressive. If you are going to build the model, I would, as Dan said, add a vertical stabilizer. I found that they were really important on my Pico Stick canard when one of them folded over and almost caused a crash. One of our viewers felt that the delta version of the Firebat would flat spin because the vertical stabs were too close to the center of gravity.
Charles
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Old Nov 24, 2008, 10:27 AM
Jets are for kids-of all ages
Florida, USA
Joined Jun 2008
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Canard Addict,

The Enforcer has Elevon, (Ailerons, Elevators) but it was pretty sluggish in pitch control, if I remember corectly, so my friend added the canard with working elevator, and it made a huge difference. Notice in the photos the canard elevator is very small, but contributes alot with the Elevons.
Roger
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Old Nov 24, 2008, 10:36 AM
Visitor from Reality
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Okay, I still haven't gotten around to a canard of my own - though after the fun I had with 'VSP" (Very Short Plane ), you can probably guess what VSC would feature heavily in the aspect ratio areas.

In the meantime, I carry on reading and marvelling at this thread. While recently searching for info on Miles aircraft - did you know that you can now buy a Miles ready-made with the colour scheme off a Chilton DW1? - I came up with this:

http://www.aviastar.org/air/england/a_miles.html

A little sparce, but if any brave souls fancy a Miles canard, any photos of these rare birds can be handy. The canards are a ways down this page, BTW

Regards

Dereck
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Old Nov 24, 2008, 12:32 PM
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Forgot to add...
This is supposed to be a tailless stealth fighter, so there is supposed to be no vertical stabilizer.

On the real RC model, I will not be adding the Flaps or LEFs, as those would be too complex, extra weight, and will actually have negative effects on a plane of this scale/size.

I will be adding one large vertical tail on the back (taped to the plane) on its maiden flight, then slowly trim off the tail until I can handle the flying characteristics of the real tailless design.

Don't worry, when I finally get the money and parts to make this thing, you'll be seeing photos and videos of it.
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Old Nov 24, 2008, 04:28 PM
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Enforcer delta with canard elevator

Roger, It is exiting to hear of the improved performance of the Enforcer due to the small canard wing. I hear that your friend Laddie is a great modeler. It would be interesting to see him fly the Enforcer someday. Dereck, it is always a pleasure to read your contributions. Is the Miles canard being built as a model or full size?
Charles
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Old Nov 24, 2008, 07:00 PM
Jets are for kids-of all ages
Florida, USA
Joined Jun 2008
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I would like to get some video footage of the enforcer flying someday. If I can I will put it on this forum.
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Old Nov 24, 2008, 10:50 PM
I love my ID.
Fairfax VA
Joined Aug 2004
623 Posts
13 inch wingspan full fuse Shinden canard pusher

Following is the link to my Shinden in the Micro/Indoor forums. I wish I had discovered this thread before I started my project.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=958719
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Old Nov 25, 2008, 07:44 AM
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Thanks for showing,JJJ, I appreciate your building skills. Please do a search here for other Shindens.
Charles
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Old Nov 25, 2008, 12:29 PM
Fly Lite Fly Right
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I don't know if its time or has been done but I would like to say congrats to Charles and
all those who have read and posted in this thread .
Over 90,000 readers and more than 2000 posts .
I would venture to say very few threads achieve this longevity .
Anyway Hi Charles
Keep it going for another 90,000 readers and 2000 posts .
I am sure you still have more things to talk about and more things to do .
I still have a one off design to post here when I get some time to finish it .

Keith
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Old Nov 25, 2008, 07:22 PM
Jets are for kids-of all ages
Florida, USA
Joined Jun 2008
2,892 Posts
I plan on posting a pdf and dwg of my foam board velocity here shortly, I am still cleaning up the plans. But for a really good flying, $2.00 canard airplane, (I assume we already have, motors, BEC, ESC, servos, props, wheels, etc.) so it is only $2.00 for the plane.
Roger
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