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Old Dec 20, 2006, 12:53 PM
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Canard Forum: Show,Discuss, Learn

This thread is for present and future canard lovers to show pictures, tell of their experiences or just ask questions about the techniques of building a successful canard. There seems to be a growing interest in canards. Sig had the Tri-Star, Multiplex,the Sonic Liner,Raidentech and Richmodels, the Long EZ and Quickie,Gunderson Aero, the S1 slope soarer and Hobby Lobby, the Shinden to name a few. There are always questions about the center of gravity and many models have been damaged before finding it. I will start by showing my first canard, The GWS Slow Stick conversion. It was built in haste in 2004 when I was anxious to put my new found knowledge to work from a book by Andy Lennon entitled "The Basics of Model Aircraft Design". It is from the publisher of Model Airplane news, Air Age Publishing Co. The Slow Stick is probably the most popular ARF which is suitable for canard conversion. The GWS Pico Stick, the Wingo from Hobby Lobby and the Soar Star are also good candidates. My GWS Slow Stick had the EPS 300 geared motor with the 11-8 orange prop. The model flew like a dream. It always pleases the onlookers and I love to share the controls with other modelers. I will attach pictures here and hope to provide all the details of construction. Build Logs index 11 models: Page 182, post 2723
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Last edited by canard addict; Sep 08, 2010 at 07:45 PM. Reason: Build log index
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 12:56 PM
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willhaney's Avatar
Fountain Valley, California
Joined Feb 2004
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That just looks so cool. How does it fly?
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 01:38 PM
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Flying, Assembly

Thank you! I flew it Sunday in 5mph wind and I got a renewed interest in it. It is 39.5 inches long and penetrates incredibly well. We looped, flew inverted made graceful turns, held full UP elevator and watched the nose act like it was riding ocean waves. The landing, as always, was smooth with moderate power. The fuselage is 39.5" long. Get an extra fuselage and cut the required add on piece which will measure about 8" long. There is a plastic piece in the kit which can be used to join the fuselage sections together. It may help to add a bit of canopy glue to the joint although I did not. The joint should be located under the main wing roughly 3.5 inches behind the LE. Be sure to slide the leading edge wing mount onto the longest fuselage part before glueing the splice. The wing is mounted as far back to the motor as possible with the leading edge higher than the trailing edge or with a positive incidence. The landing gear is stock but the wheels will not carry the load. I used the Maxx Products wheels 2-1/2" with the 2 inch plastic one on the front. These cut through the grass well. Charles
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 02:00 PM
Balsa is for doll houses
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Texas, San Antonio
Joined Aug 2004
1,647 Posts
Awesome Charles.
How does your wing bracing work for ya?
Is CG in the same place as a stock ss?
I've been wanting to build a pusher.
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 03:05 PM
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Center of Gravity, Braceing,Ailerons

Thanks, Skrogg, If you will search for "canard center of gravity calculator", and fill in the blanks, you will find the COG which has always worked for me. The wing tips will flutter when speed is raised. To correct this, I added crossed 3/16 by 1/8 balsa sticks as shown. It then became a different plane for flying fast and will even do a sloppy roll. I slotted the sticks in and glued them at the cross point. The ailerons were cut out as outlined on the wing. I used 3M and even some Scotch tape for hinges. I recommend 3M Blenderm which I get from Model Airplane Engineering 770-925-8326. The Aileron servos need to weigh no more than 0.32 ounces since weight always needs to be saved at the rear of a canard. Hitec 55 servos are good. Mine are GWS Pico Std. Just rough sand the servo and attach with canopy glue. The Pixie 20 ESC is attached to the front wing mount with double sided tape.I plugged the throttle control wire onto the receiver and mounted it with velcro as far forward as the wire would reach. An 11" Y harness brings the ailerons to the receiver. The center of gravity is 21-3/8 inches from the canard leading edge. Charles
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Last edited by canard addict; Dec 20, 2006 at 03:09 PM. Reason: Add COG measurement
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 05:38 PM
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Longmont Co.
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How do you build the canard? size shape and form?

Tom
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 07:43 PM
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Canard Wing Details

The canard wing must be 120 sq. inches. It is 24" span with 5" chord. I also use the Parkzone J3 Cub wing as a canard which will be described later. To build the balsa wing, I cut a 12 by 5 piece from 1/32" sheet balsa and pinned it flat to the board. Glue a 1/8 Sq. balsa leading edge on top of the sheet and flush with the edge. Measure back 1-1/4 inch from the LE and glue a 1/8 by 1/2 balsa spar in the vertical position. This is at the highest point of the wing crest. There are four 1/8 thick ribs.One at each end and two in between. The elevator measures 11 by 1-3/4 and will require the framing in with rib tips and spars. The ribs are 3/16 tall at the front so that the 1/32 top sheeting will form a neat rounded LE. Use your skills to build the wing as you wish.Each tip is raised by one inch for dihedral or just pin down one wing to the board and raise the other tip up by two inches. The trailing edge of the wing is 1/16 thick formed by the two 1/32" sheets. I added a rib to the inboard side of the elevator and beefed up the center section a bit. The canard LE is raised by 0.4" above the TE with a balsa triangular block. The 1/2" wide block is mounted to the fuselage with epoxy at 0.3" behind the front. Use rough sandpaper to scratch the fuselage top for better adhesion. A 1/8 by 1-3/4 by 5 balsa platform was glued to the top of the 1/2" wide wedge.Be sure the grain runs with the wing length. The canard was glued to the platform with 1/32" by 5" strips added as dihedral shims. PLEASE NOTE!! Be sure to add the plastic battery holders, the servo holders and antenna holder onto the fuselage before mounting the canard. The canard has tiplets which are there to prevent tip vortices. they are supposed to prevent the high pressure air under the wing from getting to the low pressure air above. They cap off the tips and look good. Mine are too small and I have learned to make them larger with raised pointed tips and painted red for visability. See the CANGO.The elevator controls will follow. Charles
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 11:16 PM
I post, thread dies!
Georgetown, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2003
205 Posts
StarLiner

I will toss in a few words about my canards.....

I started the original Starliner design way back in 1979, it was a flop, or should I say, that it did a nice figure 9 loop from takeoff!

After that, the design stayed "on the shelf" until late in 2003, when I got the Andy Lennon book and tried again!

The final version show here, was first flown in July of 2004, the original plane started out with a O.S. .45 fsr engine and flew that way for about 50 flights, it is called the Starliner Mk III. (Mk II never got off the drawing board) It has a 61" main wing span and weighs in at 6 lbs. It has proven to be a fine flyer.

Next I enlarged the plans to a 74" main wing span, powered by a .91 engine, and retracts. It came in a 9.5 lbs. This one is my favorite, it is a blast to fly, stable, responsive and really rips up the sky.

After that, I reduced the plans to an electric version, 48" span and a geared Himaxx motor, as with the others, worked great!.

So far, all the planes had one thing in common, no rudders. I tried several varations on the Mk IV, but all attemps failed, they all fluttered, due to the close proximity of the propellor to the rudders, at least I did not lose the plane, testing this! Final results is the the single engine version will not have rudders......

On the other hand, the twin......

I took the original prototype plane and swapped the glow engine out for a AXi outrunner (4120-18, 13x8 prop, 6s lipo) That one flew even better than the glow version. (Still a single motor plane!)

Since I could not leave well enough alone, I removed the single motor and took a pair of AXi 2814-12 outrunners and created motor mounts on the leading edge of the main wing, they are running 9x6 props on 3s lipo. So far during all of these mods the weight stayed right at 6lbs.

The twin flies great, best power so far. One of the other changes I did was to add rudders. With no prop interference, they work great, in fact too great. I was able to over do a knife edge too close to the ground and stalled the vertical stabs, which caused the plane to cartwheel across the sky. At 50ft off the ground, I was too low to recover. Damage was not too bad, the main wing was not damaged at all. (pictures below show the damage)

All in all, these plane are fun!

Pictures:

#1: Mk IIIa, single engine .45 glow.
#2: Mk III Twin, prior to crash.
#3: Mk III Twin, crash damage.
#4: Mk III Twin, all fixed!
#5: Mk IV on the runway!
#6: Mk IV flying!
#7: Mk IV flying!
#8: One of the original pictures used to create the "flying" effect

As to the future, I am planning on converting the Mk IV to twin electric! Geared brushless with 8s M1 cells. (A123) Predictions are looking like it should be slightly more than 1:1 thrust ratio. Should be fun!

Also, have been tinkering with a twin EDF version of the Mk III......we will see!

Later!
Chuck...
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 11:53 PM
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I've built a few recently, starting with the FoamEZ design from GPW, but I used a rudder instead of ailerons. It's 30". The next one was a larger (floater) 40" version to put a gear drive CD motor on. Lately I've gotten creative and used a bent dowell with three discs, I don't know what to call it. And then there's the Viggen. I'm still working on that one, I think I've got it about worked out (CG and throw issues). That one ought to be a nice little speedster, I'm hoping 50ish (fast for me).

I'm thinking about doing another FoamEZ without dihedral but still using the rudder and a taller fin. I think it will work, I need to try a small glider first.

Good Luck!
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Old Dec 21, 2006, 06:39 AM
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Starliner, Rudder control

Cwesh, Thanks for the great contribution! I know you must draw a crowd when you fly. What do you use for construction materials? I added a rudder to the nose of my Egret. It is good for turns with level wings,90% knife edge and stall turns. I have tried to push it into loss of control but apparently the rear winglets hold it stable. Why don't you come to the SEFF in 2007? You would certainly make the films and magazines! They are looking for up front new designs like yours. Charles
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Old Dec 21, 2006, 07:55 AM
Nothing like a good WOODIE!
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USA, DE, Newark
Joined Jun 2005
1,604 Posts
I first saw a Canard aircraft fly many years ago at the Laser invitational airshow in Sussex NJ. Leo Loudenslager flew a Rutan Long EZ in a beautiful aerobatic display ending with a power off energy management glide and perfect touchdown. I have rough plans I drew up of a Berkut which is similar to a Long EZ but larger, but never got around to building it. I have recently ordered Andy lennons book and plan to get back to designing the Berkut and building an electric version in the near future

cooper998
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Old Dec 21, 2006, 09:36 AM
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inovative designer

Beavrdam, What a great variety you have there. The Delta with open mid section has been on my agenda for some time now. How does it fly? Thanks for showing that, Cooper! Is it full scale? Charles
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Old Dec 21, 2006, 10:01 AM
I post, thread dies!
Georgetown, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2003
205 Posts
Starliner - Rudders +

Hi Charles,

The construction of my Starliners is all balsa. Simple box structure for the fuse, spars, ribs and sheeting on the wings.

On the Mk IV, I even tried a rhino rudder (pic below). I had it moving a good 45 degrees to each side and all it did was to yaw the nose over about 5 degrees, did not do much of anything, wouldn't even hold the nose up when trying a knife edge. Guess the main fins are too powerful to allow the plane to yaw much.

SEFF 2007, humm......

Later!
Chuck
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Old Dec 21, 2006, 10:26 AM
Bernoulli+Newton=Lift
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Somewhere south of Chicago, IL
Joined Jan 2006
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Here's a picture of my experimental canard plane. I call it the "Half Circle Canard".

Something about canards just look cool to me.

Though my wife did say that this one looks kind of like a lamp shade.
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Old Dec 21, 2006, 11:20 AM
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Parkzone Canard for GWS Slow Stick

A Parkzone J3 Cub wing part no. PKZ1120 makes an excellent canard wing. Since we need 120 sq. inches to keep the same COG and the chord is 5.75", cut the wing down to 21 inches or 10.5 each side of the centerline. Take a 3/8" thick piece of balsa and use the tip of the new wing to trace the underside contour for the incidence wedge for mounting, cut the wedge so that the LE of the wing is 0.45" higher than the TE. This will be epoxyed to the fuselage as described before. I added a 1/4" thick balsa cover to each side of the wedge from the underside of the wing to the bottom of the fuselage to sandwich in the wedge and to provide a 7/8 " mount to glue the canard to.See pictures attached. You should reserve six to eight inches of the fuselage behind the canard for battery balancing the model. Plug the elevator servo into the receiver and mount on the servo on the plastic mounts as far forward as the wire will reach. You may need a short extension wire to place the servo further forward and reduce the length of the elevator control spruce stick. The elevators should be 1.75" wide and should run from the wing tiplet to 1" from the fuselage side. To control the elevator, I used a 1/8" sq. spruce stick with a 0.032" wire at the rear with Z bend and drilled it up front for 0.045" wire to pass through. The front wire should be epoxyed onto neutral elevators as close as practical to the end of the elevators for firm control. Needle nose pliars were used bend the horn around the spruce stick. This system has worked well on four models. Add some sharp looking tiplets. Charles
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