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Old Dec 19, 2006, 06:53 PM
Drag and Destroy
kymoonshine's Avatar
United States, KY, Stanford
Joined Nov 2006
111 Posts
Discussion
The real skinny on learning to fly...

I have been reading through tons of stuff here on rc groups... and still need to ask a question about helis... Do you guys agree or disagree that a coaxial bird like the Blade CX, Axe EZ or any of the other stable easy to fly coax helis helps in any way to move into a c pitch heli? I loved flying my Blade Cx right up to the time it flew away never to return... and I was getting alittle bored with it as I had it down pretty well.. I want to fly a real heli...do 3D... amaze my friends... should I buy another coax and keep geeting better on it? or just go ahead and try a cp heli like the Blade CP.. I understand that a small electric cp heli is hard to fly... I learn fairly fast and just don't want to continue flying a coax if it does nothing to help my transition into a cp... any input would be great... Thanks
KyMoonshine
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Old Dec 19, 2006, 07:04 PM
Mom says I'm special...
beafraid8's Avatar
Aurora, CO
Joined Apr 2003
2,562 Posts
Do you have a sim?

I learned to fly on the BCP and my sim. I just NOW bought a CX2 and I'm loving it!

It's nothing like my T-Rex (which I fly upside-down), but it sure is fun on cold, snowy days!

I say, GET BOTH! Or, get one and a sim...

-Roman
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Old Dec 19, 2006, 07:15 PM
Drag and Destroy
kymoonshine's Avatar
United States, KY, Stanford
Joined Nov 2006
111 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by beafraid8
Do you have a sim?

I learned to fly on the BCP and my sim. I just NOW bought a CX2 and I'm loving it!

It's nothing like my T-Rex (which I fly upside-down), but it sure is fun on cold, snowy days!

I say, GET BOTH! Or, get one and a sim...

-Roman
No I have been going to buy a sim... I am torn between FS 1 and Great Planes.... I also loved flying my BCX I was just wondering if ANY of the stuff I have learned on it will apply to a CP?
Thanks
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Old Dec 19, 2006, 07:31 PM
Radd Graduate '06
Mochaboy's Avatar
United States, MA, Sudbury
Joined Aug 2006
1,820 Posts
Coaxials allow you to develop your orientation skills and muscle memory. One of the most challenging skills to learn early on is nose in hovering simply because everything's backwards. You have to untrain your brain and develop your reflexes to react instantly to any deviation and adjust accordingly.

If you can get it moving forward fast enough, you can learn how to do bank turns (really slow ones) and practice doing figure eights or remote circles.

The problem is that the mechanics of flight are very different making the leap to cp helis a little more challenging. With a coaxial, almost everything depends on varying the speed of the blades. Want to raise altitude, increase speed, lower, reduce speed.

On a collective pitch helicopter, you maintain the speed throughout the flight (ideally), but you vary the pitch or angle of the blades. Steeper the angle, the faster it lifts (or drops if you're using negative pitch). It's that ability of the blades to alter their angle that allows cp helicopters to do all the 3D tricks they're capable of.

Things you'll come to discover with CP helis:
- Transitioning to forward flight is as easy as dipping the nose and pulsing the pitch (throttle)...
- They're faster (a lot faster)
- In addition to managing 3-4 controls (speed/elevator/aileron/rudder), you now have to manage a 5th, pitch (but if you run a flat throttle curve, then it's 4 controls again - pitch/elevator/aileron/rudder).
- once you learn hovering in the basic orientations (tail, right, left, nose), flip it on its head and start all over again.

Anyway, I'm overcomplicating it...to answer your questions:
- you'll carry over your orientation skills and some muscle memory development
- cp helis are a vastly different ballgame from coaxials
- A smoother transition with a higher initial learning curve is starting with a fixed pitch helicopter then moving to a collective pitch helicopter
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Old Dec 19, 2006, 07:55 PM
Fly High
Joined May 2006
119 Posts
i started with my friends coco lama.. slow steady controls.. i now have a axe cp
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Old Dec 19, 2006, 08:01 PM
Google 'Blade 400 bible'
Slyster's Avatar
Joined Nov 2006
2,776 Posts
How about a FP heli? Like the HoneyBee FP? I heard that's a great heli to START. Skip to coaxial step altogether.. (with learning on a sim first)... that's what I am going to attempt. Just look how LONG the HB FP thread is!

I have an eSky USB transmitter (the fake one for the computer) and Clearview flightsim... I plan on doing that for a few months now.. and then get the heli in the spring.

That seems right to me.. since I don't spend just as much money on a Blade CX as I will on the HB FP.
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Old Dec 19, 2006, 08:03 PM
Mom says I'm special...
beafraid8's Avatar
Aurora, CO
Joined Apr 2003
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Good response, Mocha.

I'd just like to add that a CP in "normal" mode is actually very similar to a FP or a coaxial. It's just MUCH touchier.

I didn't switch into "stunt" mode (idle up) until I had a BUNCH of flights on it. It just takes too much time to remember to kick it into normal mode AND bring the throttle down in that order to stop the blades. But, as with anything, enough practice makes it easy.

My CP was great to learn on, but I flew the hell out of the simulator, and spent a lot of money on parts because I learned to fly in the street in front of my house.

Lesson #1: Take your time.
Lesson #2: Try not to fly over hard surfaces!

I failed both lessons! Hopefully your experience will be MUCH less costly. Though, I will add that I learned to fix the damn thing pretty well!
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Old Dec 19, 2006, 08:06 PM
Mom says I'm special...
beafraid8's Avatar
Aurora, CO
Joined Apr 2003
2,562 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyster
How about a FP heli?
Yet another good idea. Since you've already had a coaxial, a fixed-pitch would probably be better. You can still fly it indoors once you get good enough, too.

It won't be nearly as difficult to learn as the CP alternatives.
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Old Dec 19, 2006, 08:12 PM
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STANG KILLA SS's Avatar
Killeen TX
Joined Dec 2006
1,441 Posts
i wouldnt attempt anything other than a co-ax without a sim.
i spent 2-3 months on a G2 lite i picked up on ebay for $67 then bought a CP pro.
unless you own stock in e-flight or a local hobby store i wouldnt attempt a collective pitch (or even FP [although ive never flown one]) without sim time.
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Old Dec 19, 2006, 08:16 PM
Radd Graduate '06
Mochaboy's Avatar
United States, MA, Sudbury
Joined Aug 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beafraid8
I failed both lessons!
If I knew then what I know now...My wallet and I would be on speaking terms...
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Old Dec 19, 2006, 08:20 PM
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Aberdeen,Scotland, UK
Joined Jun 2005
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I started with a micro FP as my first heli ever and found it a good fun challenge,although i'm sure a coax wouldve gave me some better foundations to go from,i hit the ground cold and had a sort of difficult but indeed fun learning curve ,after i mastered all orientations and forward flight,oh i should add the first week was spent skitting along the floor scared to lift off ,anyways,once you learn to fly a micro fp,in my humble opinion,everything else is going to seem like a complete walk in the park,i since moved on to a trex and a micro cp,the trex especially just seemed so much more easy fly,on saying that i still fly my fp almost daily just because its so "dialled in" now and fun to fly,that comes with a bit of time and experience and ofcourse reading and asking questions here,the black art of "setup" i think has a major part to play in this discipline of RC,nothing will destroy your resolve worse than a poorly setup heli ,whatever you choose,dont cut corners to get airborne faster.
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Old Dec 19, 2006, 10:32 PM
Drag and Destroy
kymoonshine's Avatar
United States, KY, Stanford
Joined Nov 2006
111 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyster
How about a FP heli? Like the HoneyBee FP? I heard that's a great heli to START. Skip to coaxial step altogether.. (with learning on a sim first)... that's what I am going to attempt. Just look how LONG the HB FP thread is!

I have an eSky USB transmitter (the fake one for the computer) and Clearview flightsim... I plan on doing that for a few months now.. and then get the heli in the spring.

That seems right to me.. since I don't spend just as much money on a Blade CX as I will on the HB FP.

I never even considered a FP... Whats a good one? and how are they easier to fly?
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Old Dec 19, 2006, 10:55 PM
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Joined Nov 2006
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Quote:
I loved flying my Blade Cx right up to the time it flew away never to return...
Hah! I did the same thing. Once it got about 30 feet up, the wind took over and there was nothing I could do to stop it.

I did find it, however, a couple of hundred yards away.

It was fun.
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 12:58 AM
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John235's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Mar 2006
1,315 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kymoonshine
I never even considered a FP... Whats a good one? and how are they easier to fly?
The Esky honeybee FP is the obvious answer. But FP are actually more difficult to fly than a CP heli. Though there's not a big difference when hovering, forward flight especially with wind is not easy to co-ordinate in a steady fashion with a FP heli.

The FP has two advantages:
1) Lower headspeed makes it less dangerous to fly when there is the possibility of children and pets around.
2) FP helis are typically more rugged, simpler, and less expensive to repair.

If you don't mind making repairs and have the funds to do it, you are probably ok to more up to a CP heli. Just make sure you get training undercarriage - that will save you from the inevitable "oops" situations.
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 03:17 AM
Will fly for food
Maryland
Joined Sep 2004
8,424 Posts
WRT sims, check out Phoenix. There is a review ojn TrexTuning.com

Better graphics and better physics. You can order direct or from Tower Hobby.
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