Vinyl Cutting Service

pldaniels · Dec 14, 2006, 09:10 PM

G'day all,

As a lot of you already know, I have a vinyl cutting machine and have already done a few jobs for various people on RCG.

Now, my question is, I am trying to determine how to offer an -online- service that'll allow people to request decals with minimal trouble.

The idea I have at the moment is basically to sell "A4" sized sheets of a given colour and then people are free to put what ever graphics they want onto that A4 sheet - which is subsequently mailed/posted to them.

Cost wise, I'd say something like $14 for the A4 sheet, irrespective of what is on it (ie, one tiny decal or 100).

Preferred formats would be AutoCAD R12 DXF files, or HPGL files.

Monochrome files such as PNG, GIF would also be okay providing there aren't too many very acute angles in it (because they tend to be damped out by the tracing software).

Colour selection is another issue. I do have palette files for things like Illustrator / GIMP / Corel etc.

... willing to listen to other ideas/problems ...

GotrekGurnisson · Dec 14, 2006, 10:00 PM

You'd probably want to have a surcharge for raster files, seeing as you have to convert them.

pldaniels · Dec 14, 2006, 10:21 PM

Yes, conversion from raster to vector can take about 10 minutes typically from loading to confirmed finish, especially if it's a somewhat complex raster. Perhaps something like $5 per unique raster image converted.

GotrekGurnisson · Dec 14, 2006, 11:39 PM

Also, I would think that if people are going to be supplying vector files, it's more likely they will be doing so using Illustrator or Coreldraw native formats (AI and CDR) or EPS. You should be able to accept those rather than making people supply them as DXFs.

pldaniels · Dec 15, 2006, 12:08 AM

The trouble with formats like AI / CDR / PUB is that you can often suffer a lot of "Lost in translation" issues (as it is, it's already bad enough with DXF at times). Even between versions of the same program there can be translation issues.

Formats like EPS / PS, DXF, PNG and GIF at least are somewhat portable as they are not explicitly tied to a given application (Yes, DXF is AutoCAD however it has become more of a defacto standard for CAD between multiple applications).

While it'd be nice to handle AI / CDR / PUB directly it'd still mean that the system will have to output to an intermediate format that'll be accepted by the vinyl cutting system, so there'd still be a translation required.

EPS, DXF, BMP, GIF, PNG, TIFF and HPGL are the only import formats currently supported by the cutting software. Perhaps in the near future they'll add plugins to directly import AI / CDR / PUB ones (which would be nice all around).

Paul.

GotrekGurnisson · Dec 15, 2006, 01:12 AM

Well if it it accepts EPS that should be fine.

Evil Lord X · Dec 15, 2006, 03:27 AM

Preferably find a good freeware app that outputs the format you require/prefer and put a link to a website where you can downlaod it. Many potential customers won't/don't have AutoCAD or Corel etc...

The A4 sheet idea sounds good, perhaps you could offer half A4 for the more popular colours? ie black.

Troy

Fluffy Monster · Dec 15, 2006, 03:47 AM

Paul,
you are a brave man to start down the multiple file format path, but thanks for offering the service. As the Evil Lord X pointed out, if you can specify an Open Source or Freeware CAD program, you will ease a lot of your pain. AllyCAD is one of the many programs that offer a cutdown version. All you need to confirm is that the DXF out from this package imports with no issues into your cutter software. I used CorelDraw to print a tiled version of the Seether plans and had issues with the text headings. Printed them using Autocad Inventor and all was fine. Not all DXF's are equal!
Maybe you should ask for a JPEG,PNG or PDF version as well as the DXF so you can visually verify (proof) that what was requested is what the cutting software will cut.

John

pldaniels · Dec 15, 2006, 03:49 AM

Troy,

A5 is partially possible - but it's not entirely practical. The reason being is that there's a fixed minimum area of vinyl that needs to be used in order for the cutter to maintain reliable holding/tracking of the sheet of which is about 50% of an A5 sheet.

In short, it wouldn't be a half-price situation, more like only 25% cheaper.

Of course, if demand is there then I suppose one can do it.

Paul.

pldaniels · Dec 15, 2006, 03:52 AM

John,

Good advice there. As for CAD applications, I use QCAD for the bulk of my stuff, it's free/open-source (though you can purchase the commercial version for ~$30).

The preprocessing / conversion side of things will all be done via Linux, in fact, when I have some more time *ahahah* I'll refine the HPGL output driver via linux and then I can eliminate Windows from the picture entirely.

Your suggestion of having a raster image as a proof for the vector/dxf is a very good idea.

Paul.

Evil Lord X · Dec 15, 2006, 04:51 AM

I was thinking A5 on common colours as in you could print two orders (assuming you have enough orders) on one sheet then cut in half, that is why I said half A4 rather than A5... Just out of curriosity, what it the absolute maximum size you can do for a single decal?

Troy

pldaniels · Dec 15, 2006, 05:03 AM

Troy,

220mm is the 'maximum' cut-width (material width can actually be as much as 350mm however the excess would just be wasted) that can be fed through the machine, though the length is "technically" infinite (though I'd limit it to about 1m due to ensure good alignment/accuracy).

I see what you're saying about the A5 option. I'm consider what I can do - especially since as I do more and more I have a bucket growing with 'offcuts', though lately I've been putting them into the various full-kits that I've been selling so that people can make their own decals like I did with the Slipso, Seether and EB2s

Paul.

Geoff2005 · Dec 15, 2006, 11:41 PM

Is it possible to use a windows print file?
When the print command is used an option available is to print to file. The file must be able to be used to drive a printer or plotter at a later time. If it were possible you could supply a template in Word that has the non usable margins. It's not CAD but you can do a lot of basic graphics in Word.

pldaniels · Dec 15, 2006, 11:53 PM

Geoff,

If you're going to go that route, then you can either select one of the basic Postscript (PS,EPS) or HPGL printers.

Regards.

foxesfarm · Dec 22, 2006, 02:15 PM

Just post a link to the website www.inkscape.org and tell people it's free, and they need to save it in .eps format for you to cut it. That way you don't need to deal with multiple formats that might not translate perfectly to your machine. You're right about losing lots of information when sending .ai formats and such, it's best for them to send you exactly what they want in .eps format, then they can't say you didn't cut what they want.

Dec 14, 2006, 09:10 PM	#1
pldaniels http://nqrc.com Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia, QLD, Charters Towers Posts: 13,240	Vinyl Cutting Service G'day all, As a lot of you already know, I have a vinyl cutting machine and have already done a few jobs for various people on RCG. Now, my question is, I am trying to determine how to offer an -online- service that'll allow people to request decals with minimal trouble. The idea I have at the moment is basically to sell "A4" sized sheets of a given colour and then people are free to put what ever graphics they want onto that A4 sheet - which is subsequently mailed/posted to them. Cost wise, I'd say something like $14 for the A4 sheet, irrespective of what is on it (ie, one tiny decal or 100). Preferred formats would be AutoCAD R12 DXF files, or HPGL files. Monochrome files such as PNG, GIF would also be okay providing there aren't too many very acute angles in it (because they tend to be damped out by the tracing software). Colour selection is another issue. I do have palette files for things like Illustrator / GIMP / Corel etc. ... willing to listen to other ideas/problems ...

Dec 22, 2006, 02:15 PM	#15
foxesfarm Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6	Inkscape.org program is free and saves as .eps! Just post a link to the website www.inkscape.org and tell people it's free, and they need to save it in .eps format for you to cut it. That way you don't need to deal with multiple formats that might not translate perfectly to your machine. You're right about losing lots of information when sending .ai formats and such, it's best for them to send you exactly what they want in .eps format, then they can't say you didn't cut what they want.

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Dec 14, 2006, 10:00 PM	#2
GotrekGurnisson It's a trap! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,107	You'd probably want to have a surcharge for raster files, seeing as you have to convert them.

Dec 14, 2006, 10:21 PM	#3
pldaniels http://nqrc.com Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia, QLD, Charters Towers Posts: 13,240	Yes, conversion from raster to vector can take about 10 minutes typically from loading to confirmed finish, especially if it's a somewhat complex raster. Perhaps something like $5 per unique raster image converted.

Dec 14, 2006, 11:39 PM	#4
GotrekGurnisson It's a trap! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,107	Also, I would think that if people are going to be supplying vector files, it's more likely they will be doing so using Illustrator or Coreldraw native formats (AI and CDR) or EPS. You should be able to accept those rather than making people supply them as DXFs.

Dec 15, 2006, 12:08 AM	#5
pldaniels http://nqrc.com Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia, QLD, Charters Towers Posts: 13,240	The trouble with formats like AI / CDR / PUB is that you can often suffer a lot of "Lost in translation" issues (as it is, it's already bad enough with DXF at times). Even between versions of the same program there can be translation issues. Formats like EPS / PS, DXF, PNG and GIF at least are somewhat portable as they are not explicitly tied to a given application (Yes, DXF is AutoCAD however it has become more of a defacto standard for CAD between multiple applications). While it'd be nice to handle AI / CDR / PUB directly it'd still mean that the system will have to output to an intermediate format that'll be accepted by the vinyl cutting system, so there'd still be a translation required. EPS, DXF, BMP, GIF, PNG, TIFF and HPGL are the only import formats currently supported by the cutting software. Perhaps in the near future they'll add plugins to directly import AI / CDR / PUB ones (which would be nice all around). Paul.

Dec 15, 2006, 01:12 AM	#6
GotrekGurnisson It's a trap! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,107	Well if it it accepts EPS that should be fine.

Dec 15, 2006, 03:27 AM	#7
Evil Lord X Learning to fly helis Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Mundijong, Western Australia Posts: 1,323	Preferably find a good freeware app that outputs the format you require/prefer and put a link to a website where you can downlaod it. Many potential customers won't/don't have AutoCAD or Corel etc... The A4 sheet idea sounds good, perhaps you could offer half A4 for the more popular colours? ie black. Troy

Dec 15, 2006, 03:47 AM	#8
Fluffy Monster Nice and Fruity! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mornington Peninsula, Vic Posts: 484	Paul, you are a brave man to start down the multiple file format path, but thanks for offering the service. As the Evil Lord X pointed out, if you can specify an Open Source or Freeware CAD program, you will ease a lot of your pain. AllyCAD is one of the many programs that offer a cutdown version. All you need to confirm is that the DXF out from this package imports with no issues into your cutter software. I used CorelDraw to print a tiled version of the Seether plans and had issues with the text headings. Printed them using Autocad Inventor and all was fine. Not all DXF's are equal! Maybe you should ask for a JPEG,PNG or PDF version as well as the DXF so you can visually verify (proof) that what was requested is what the cutting software will cut. John

Dec 15, 2006, 03:49 AM	#9
pldaniels http://nqrc.com Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia, QLD, Charters Towers Posts: 13,240	Troy, A5 is partially possible - but it's not entirely practical. The reason being is that there's a fixed minimum area of vinyl that needs to be used in order for the cutter to maintain reliable holding/tracking of the sheet of which is about 50% of an A5 sheet. In short, it wouldn't be a half-price situation, more like only 25% cheaper. Of course, if demand is there then I suppose one can do it. Paul.

Dec 15, 2006, 03:52 AM	#10
pldaniels http://nqrc.com Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia, QLD, Charters Towers Posts: 13,240	John, Good advice there. As for CAD applications, I use QCAD for the bulk of my stuff, it's free/open-source (though you can purchase the commercial version for ~$30). The preprocessing / conversion side of things will all be done via Linux, in fact, when I have some more time ahahah I'll refine the HPGL output driver via linux and then I can eliminate Windows from the picture entirely. Your suggestion of having a raster image as a proof for the vector/dxf is a very good idea. Paul.

Dec 15, 2006, 04:51 AM	#11
Evil Lord X Learning to fly helis Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Mundijong, Western Australia Posts: 1,323	I was thinking A5 on common colours as in you could print two orders (assuming you have enough orders) on one sheet then cut in half, that is why I said half A4 rather than A5... Just out of curriosity, what it the absolute maximum size you can do for a single decal? Troy

Dec 15, 2006, 05:03 AM	#12
pldaniels http://nqrc.com Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia, QLD, Charters Towers Posts: 13,240	Troy, 220mm is the 'maximum' cut-width (material width can actually be as much as 350mm however the excess would just be wasted) that can be fed through the machine, though the length is "technically" infinite (though I'd limit it to about 1m due to ensure good alignment/accuracy). I see what you're saying about the A5 option. I'm consider what I can do - especially since as I do more and more I have a bucket growing with 'offcuts', though lately I've been putting them into the various full-kits that I've been selling so that people can make their own decals like I did with the Slipso, Seether and EB2s Paul.

Dec 15, 2006, 11:41 PM	#13
Geoff2005 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 737	Is it possible to use a windows print file? When the print command is used an option available is to print to file. The file must be able to be used to drive a printer or plotter at a later time. If it were possible you could supply a template in Word that has the non usable margins. It's not CAD but you can do a lot of basic graphics in Word.

Dec 15, 2006, 11:53 PM	#14
pldaniels http://nqrc.com Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia, QLD, Charters Towers Posts: 13,240	Geoff, If you're going to go that route, then you can either select one of the basic Postscript (PS,EPS) or HPGL printers. Regards.