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Old Jun 20, 2008, 10:41 AM
rather fly, but this'll do
krefi's Avatar
Portland, OR
Joined Feb 2008
784 Posts
JEMFLYER-
What Helimax prop were you using in the DD setup? I should hope it goes without saying that you can't use the V2 prop in a DD configuration without overtaxing the motor and getting exactly the kind of poor performance you are describing.
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Old Jun 20, 2008, 11:02 AM
Registered User
Joined Jan 2008
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KREFI,

I'm using the direct drive prop. It is not possible to use the V1/V2 prop because the
"axle" hole is bigger than the shaft of the tail motor. Also in the geared configuration, the tail rotor turns in the opposite direction compared to the dd rotor, so blade angles are also opposite on the two props.

I think the main problem with the dd is trying to get a very small rotor to do the same work as the much larger geared rotor. The tail motors are delicate as it is and asking more rpm and more rpm acceleration from them may be the downfall of dd.

It is unfortunate Helimax has not discovered or created a high quality, ball bearing, replaceable brush tail motor. I am always irked at paying $25 for a tail motor when the main motor, which lasts much longer, only goes for $15.

Still, for learning how to fly helis, I think the Axe CP is an ok deal. At about 100 flites per tail motor, you're only looking at 25 cents a flite.
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Old Jun 20, 2008, 11:17 AM
rather fly, but this'll do
krefi's Avatar
Portland, OR
Joined Feb 2008
784 Posts
JEM, that is troublesome. It seems like if the prop were correctly sized and pitched, the motor shouldn't have to spin any faster or harder. In theory you should realize a net increase in performance when the friction of gears is removed, and I would think responsiveness would be better with less rotating weight to accelerate or decelerate.
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Old Jun 20, 2008, 12:57 PM
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thazy2's Avatar
Pueblo Colorado
Joined Mar 2002
620 Posts
Lots of reading here! Need some recommendation? Please


My friend's AXE cp, which is dead and not enough power for 5000ft+ alt, is ready for overhaul. The 3/1 borad took up smoking last night. We dont know what happened.


I want to covert over to brushless but dont know which motor to choose. There are to many options and im very confused. Any help or links would be great! Here what i have so far sitting around:

Feigao brushless for tail
CC pixie 7
CC phoenix 10
CC phoenix 25
gy 401


The heli already has HS55 and metal head. The question is: Which brushless and pinion to use for the main that will BOLT IN W/ OUT MOD and has 25% more power for thinner air? I was thinking of using this motor but dont know about power w/ 10t or 12t which it comes w/.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=EFLM1000


Also, i dont know if the OEM rec is any good. I did manage to get it working w/ my 14mz. What rec are u guys using? should i replace the Oem?


thanks........JSN
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Old Jun 20, 2008, 02:05 PM
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fpainter3's Avatar
USA, KY, Florence
Joined Aug 2007
3,061 Posts
JEMFLYER:

HERE ARE PARTS I USED TO "FIX" MY TAIL MOTOR. CHECK MY BLOG FOR PICTURES.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXHHM6&P=0
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXHHE2&P=M
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXHUY8&P=0
http://www.helidirect.com/product_in...oducts_id=3362

I have a complete brush less tail setup. I switched back to the brushed.

if you use a separate gyro and you have an oops, the tail motor usually stalls and fry's because the gyro is still telling the tail rotor to run even though the main motor drive is commanded to stop.

Has anyone found a solution for this problem? An electronic switch that would enable the tail ESC only when the main motor is running would be the answer. it would also make the heli safer when plugging in the battery.
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Last edited by fpainter3; Jun 20, 2008 at 02:26 PM.
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Old Jun 20, 2008, 03:01 PM
rather fly, but this'll do
krefi's Avatar
Portland, OR
Joined Feb 2008
784 Posts
fpainter3-
Do you think that GWS motor would run safely using the stock e-board's speed control and orange prop that it comes with?
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Old Jun 20, 2008, 03:40 PM
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s65jet's Avatar
USA, MI, Benton Harbor
Joined Feb 2006
456 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by thazy2
Lots of reading here! Need some recommendation? Please


My friend's AXE cp, which is dead and not enough power for 5000ft+ alt, is ready for overhaul. The 3/1 borad took up smoking last night. We dont know what happened.


I want to covert over to brushless but dont know which motor to choose. There are to many options and im very confused. Any help or links would be great! Here what i have so far sitting around:

Feigao brushless for tail
CC pixie 7
CC phoenix 10
CC phoenix 25
gy 401


The heli already has HS55 and metal head. The question is: Which brushless and pinion to use for the main that will BOLT IN W/ OUT MOD and has 25% more power for thinner air? I was thinking of using this motor but dont know about power w/ 10t or 12t which it comes w/.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=EFLM1000


Also, i dont know if the OEM rec is any good. I did manage to get it working w/ my 14mz. What rec are u guys using? should i replace the Oem?


thanks........JSN
Here's the motor I used:
http://www.helidirect.com/product_in...oducts_id=4641

You can use your CC25 to control it. The Feigo will go on the tail with the CC10. The 401 will only work with a different radio. I have a 16 tooth pinion on mine with lots of head speed. Might recommend a 14 tooth.
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Old Jun 20, 2008, 03:56 PM
Registered User
Colorado
Joined Jan 2007
423 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by thazy2
Lots of reading here! Need some recommendation? Please


My friend's AXE cp, which is dead and not enough power for 5000ft+ alt, is ready for overhaul. The 3/1 borad took up smoking last night. We dont know what happened.


I want to covert over to brushless but dont know which motor to choose. There are to many options and im very confused. Any help or links would be great! Here what i have so far sitting around:

Feigao brushless for tail
CC pixie 7
CC phoenix 10
CC phoenix 25
gy 401


The heli already has HS55 and metal head. The question is: Which brushless and pinion to use for the main that will BOLT IN W/ OUT MOD and has 25% more power for thinner air? I was thinking of using this motor but dont know about power w/ 10t or 12t which it comes w/.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=EFLM1000


Also, i dont know if the OEM rec is any good. I did manage to get it working w/ my 14mz. What rec are u guys using? should i replace the Oem?


thanks........JSN
That inrunner is small, Very small. If your going to use the 370 get the outrunner version, It will have more torque which translates to power which help alot in climbouts. I used the Esky 3100kv motor because at the time I was like you and just wanted something to replace a main motor on a derelict Axe. It fits well and the stock pinion fits on it also.
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Old Jun 20, 2008, 04:59 PM
Design, Build, Crash?, Repeat
Chris_K's Avatar
Monroe, CT
Joined Mar 2005
724 Posts
I wish I'd read about the HOT direct drive tail motor condition yesterday, before ordering two setups to convert both of my Axes to DD. Now I'm thinking it's not such a good idea...

Chris
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Old Jun 20, 2008, 06:34 PM
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thazy2's Avatar
Pueblo Colorado
Joined Mar 2002
620 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by s65jet
Here's the motor I used:
http://www.helidirect.com/product_in...oducts_id=4641

You can use your CC25 to control it. The Feigo will go on the tail with the CC10. The 401 will only work with a different radio. I have a 16 tooth pinion on mine with lots of head speed. Might recommend a 14 tooth.



I saw that but its IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND PINIONS W/ .4M/64PITCH AND 3.17MM diameter.

Do you have a source?
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Old Jun 20, 2008, 06:35 PM
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thazy2's Avatar
Pueblo Colorado
Joined Mar 2002
620 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by fpainter3
JEMFLYER:

HERE ARE PARTS I USED TO "FIX" MY TAIL MOTOR. CHECK MY BLOG FOR PICTURES.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXHHM6&P=0
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXHHE2&P=M
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXHUY8&P=0
http://www.helidirect.com/product_in...oducts_id=3362

I have a complete brush less tail setup. I switched back to the brushed.

if you use a separate gyro and you have an oops, the tail motor usually stalls and fry's because the gyro is still telling the tail rotor to run even though the main motor drive is commanded to stop.

Has anyone found a solution for this problem? An electronic switch that would enable the tail ESC only when the main motor is running would be the answer. it would also make the heli safer when plugging in the battery.


Can u explain in more detail. Sorry im slow. Going brushless burns out tail motor?
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Old Jun 20, 2008, 06:40 PM
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thazy2's Avatar
Pueblo Colorado
Joined Mar 2002
620 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotor13B
That inrunner is small, Very small. If your going to use the 370 get the outrunner version, It will have more torque which translates to power which help alot in climbouts. I used the Esky 3100kv motor because at the time I was like you and just wanted something to replace a main motor on a derelict Axe. It fits well and the stock pinion fits on it also.


Do you have link? Searched Horizon and nothing w/ 3100kv w/ same mounting holes length and shaft size.
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Old Jun 20, 2008, 06:43 PM
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thazy2's Avatar
Pueblo Colorado
Joined Mar 2002
620 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_K
I wish I'd read about the HOT direct drive tail motor condition yesterday, before ordering two setups to convert both of my Axes to DD. Now I'm thinking it's not such a good idea...

Chris


what r u talking about? Is it direct drive using GWS's brushed and props mentioned above?
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Old Jun 20, 2008, 08:20 PM
Design, Build, Crash?, Repeat
Chris_K's Avatar
Monroe, CT
Joined Mar 2005
724 Posts
I'm talking about JEMFLYER's posts # 6943 and 6947. I belived he was referring to the stock N60 tail motor and the new Heli-Max DD prop. If he's referring to a GWS motor rather than the stock, I'm happy to be mistaken.
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Old Jun 21, 2008, 01:27 PM
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Toysrme's Avatar
Birmingham, Alabama
Joined Jun 2002
2,969 Posts
Man the Axe CP's are alot better with the medal head!
I went all metal with stock blade grips. Using some JCS Hobbies symetrical plastic blades with 12 1/2" holes drilled in them and the 20C 800mah LM Loong batteries.

This way all I ever do is shear off the blade grips. Which are easily repaired with screw in ball links and a drop of CA! No more hobby shop supply woes for my Axe!


Bought a trex 450sa too!
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