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Old Dec 17, 2006, 10:11 PM
GenesisCreation's Avatar
United States of America
Joined May 2003
287 Posts
Help...

The CX2 is my first heli. Been flying just over one week. I can't believe how much fun helis are. I have gone through a package of both upper and lower blades and suffered a crack on the fuselage (mended with scotch tape).

The problem is last night I got into a tangle with my recliner and busted my last two lower blades. Got to the LHS today and got more blades, but when I replaced them the heli's nose had a strong pull to the right and seemingly no power. While trying to dial in the gyro, I tagged one of my wife's shoes and busted an upper blade and that's when I made the discovery that a pin on the inner shaft hub was broken. Luckily I had purchased an inner shaft with my heli so I was able to replace it. I was able to fix the nose drift but still have almost no power. With full throttle I just barely lift off. My battery has almost 7.5 volts which would have been plenty before last night's crash. Does this mean I might have damaged my 4 in 1? What other things should I look at?
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Old Dec 17, 2006, 10:40 PM
Live, Die, FLY
Kalispell, in the Rocky Mountains
Joined Jul 2006
497 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenesisCreation
The CX2 is my first heli. Been flying just over one week. I can't believe how much fun helis are. I have gone through a package of both upper and lower blades and suffered a crack on the fuselage (mended with scotch tape).

The problem is last night I got into a tangle with my recliner and busted my last two lower blades. Got to the LHS today and got more blades, but when I replaced them the heli's nose had a strong pull to the right and seemingly no power. While trying to dial in the gyro, I tagged one of my wife's shoes and busted an upper blade and that's when I made the discovery that a pin on the inner shaft hub was broken. Luckily I had purchased an inner shaft with my heli so I was able to replace it. I was able to fix the nose drift but still have almost no power. With full throttle I just barely lift off. My battery has almost 7.5 volts which would have been plenty before last night's crash. Does this mean I might have damaged my 4 in 1? What other things should I look at?
THIS HAPPINED TO ME ABOUT 5 MIN AGO. Probibly wont be the last time eather. My heli would sit on the ground, or lift up just a bit and spin to the right realy hard. Take off the body and look at the clamp that holds the upper shaft in place, there are 2 skrews, one on each side, tighten both till they are rock solid (but NOT stripped). This solved my probelm, without all the power from the top rotor the heli will not have the power to hold itself in the air. Hope I helped, happy flying!

P.S. Dont get cocky, about my 3rd flight (haveing a BCX befor this). I was seeing just how close I could get to the celling... and well the heli kinda did a disco befor crashing into our tile table... Blades shattered and what not, I took them off and ran the shafts under full power, no wobble, so I lucked out.
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Last edited by That can fly?!?; Dec 17, 2006 at 10:41 PM. Reason: cause
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 12:07 AM
Registered User
Joined Jun 2006
23 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtreme
I would look a little closer. The frame is different, so are the servos, Which I find are junk. It only took me 3 seconds to see that. I guess you will need to stock more parts.. Are those links to your store ??

Joe
Didnt notice that. Havnt had a single problem with the servos. The links are to my online store which the inventory is provided by one of my distributors.

Can i say I love my job! Did about 30 flights on saturday for people in the store. Nothing gets the blood pumping like letting someone that has never flown before fly your own heli. Just when you think everything is going good they hit the ceiling for fun.

Corey
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 01:50 PM
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Vipula AD's Avatar
Greensboro/H.Pt/Win-Salem P.T. Intl, North Carolina, United States
Joined Dec 2001
806 Posts
I was out of town for some time, but that did not stop me from flying, and experimenting on, the CX2. I got everything adjusted, Two and a half turns CCW on the aileron pushrod and one turn CW on the elevator pushrod almost fixed the left and forward drifts. I think I still need another half turn on the elevator link.

I also added a heat sink to the two motors and what I have so far found is very interesting. After a week of flying and taking the temperature of the motors with an IR thermometer, I have come to the conclusion that just adding the heat sink without cutting a hole on the top of the fuselage is a waste of effort and money. With the inside temperature of the room at 70F, the temperature of the two motors, without the heat sink, was 135F to 137F right after I land and climbed to 142F to 143F after about 30 seconds. The readings were always taken after a flight lasting 10 -11 minutes (full discharge of an E-flight pack). With the heat sink the temperatures were 134F to 137F and 140F to 142F. Ok, so there is a very small improvement.

Next I cut a rectangular hole on the top of the canopy (cut on three sides and the flap left on the canopy but sloping to the back so that the down wash flow is directed to the motor) and did the same tests. Now the motor temps were 120F to 123F and 133F to 135F, a good bit of improvement I think. Next I removed the heat sink (yes I had to go thru the process of dismantling half the heli again) but left the hole as is and the temps were 120F to 125F and 134F to 137F.

However, the heat sink improved the performance of the heli in a totally different way. I can only describe the noise as gearbox chatter and after installing the heat sink the noise was virtually gone, and when I removed the heat sink the chatter came back. My analysis of the situation is that the attachment of the motors to the frame structure allows the motors to tilt side to side (top of the motors get closer to each other or away from each other) as the loading on the blades change, thus causing the motor pinion to mesh with the main gear at a slight angle. When the heat sink is attached to the two motors it form a rigid structure at the top of the motor that forcing the two motors to stay parallel to the rotor shaft thus eliminating any motor oscillations. I may be putting too much theory in to this but the heli sounds smoother with the heat sink than without it.

Vip.
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 02:45 PM
John 3:16
Daddy-O's Avatar
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Joined May 2003
3,825 Posts
I just got my Blade CX2 today! This is my first experience with a heli (except for the PiccoZ). I took it out of the box, did the tests they say to do, took it down to the gym, and it flew almost perfectly right out of the box. Just one or two slight trim adjustments and it was hovering great. I have only flown one pack through it so far, but I was going forward, backward, left, right, circles and figure eights. It flew without a problem. I'm just waiting for the battery pack to charge back up now. I've got a couple more small battery packs around here somewhere, but I was a little concerned about overheating the motors. I think I'll try to slowly break them in before running more than one pack through them. Lot's of fun!
Daddy-O
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 02:52 PM
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nose_first's Avatar
Riverview, FL
Joined Dec 2002
1,497 Posts
so, when they first came out i purchased a blade cp after flying fixed wing for many years. i parked the blade cp once i found that i couldnt get my first heli to do what i wanted. fast forward to this week when i decided to look at something for my heli, and saw these threads.. i read up a little more and went to the lhs. i now have a cp2 and the lipo just finished charging. just waiting to take a break and go fly some.

at the lhs - i was able to put it into a hover very easily and able to get it to move like i expect it to and even land without incident (hey - some of these are big deals since i was feeling like i had wasted the money on the previous heli). granted this was on the shop heli and i didnt actually fly mine yet - but i am hoping for a similar experience.
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 04:12 PM
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Joined Aug 2006
135 Posts
For even better airflow, try cutting out the entire canopy window. I don't have any exact numbers, but I reckon the prop wash will keep the motors, 4in1 and battery much cooler this way. I also think there is enough room for a second heatsink stacked ontop of the first. I am goingto try a double heatsink and see if that makes a difference.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipula AD
I was out of town for some time, but that did not stop me from flying, and experimenting on, the CX2. I got everything adjusted, Two and a half turns CCW on the aileron pushrod and one turn CW on the elevator pushrod almost fixed the left and forward drifts. I think I still need another half turn on the elevator link.

I also added a heat sink to the two motors and what I have so far found is very interesting. After a week of flying and taking the temperature of the motors with an IR thermometer, I have come to the conclusion that just adding the heat sink without cutting a hole on the top of the fuselage is a waste of effort and money. With the inside temperature of the room at 70F, the temperature of the two motors, without the heat sink, was 135F to 137F right after I land and climbed to 142F to 143F after about 30 seconds. The readings were always taken after a flight lasting 10 -11 minutes (full discharge of an E-flight pack). With the heat sink the temperatures were 134F to 137F and 140F to 142F. Ok, so there is a very small improvement.

Next I cut a rectangular hole on the top of the canopy (cut on three sides and the flap left on the canopy but sloping to the back so that the down wash flow is directed to the motor) and did the same tests. Now the motor temps were 120F to 123F and 133F to 135F, a good bit of improvement I think. Next I removed the heat sink (yes I had to go thru the process of dismantling half the heli again) but left the hole as is and the temps were 120F to 125F and 134F to 137F.

However, the heat sink improved the performance of the heli in a totally different way. I can only describe the noise as gearbox chatter and after installing the heat sink the noise was virtually gone, and when I removed the heat sink the chatter came back. My analysis of the situation is that the attachment of the motors to the frame structure allows the motors to tilt side to side (top of the motors get closer to each other or away from each other) as the loading on the blades change, thus causing the motor pinion to mesh with the main gear at a slight angle. When the heat sink is attached to the two motors it form a rigid structure at the top of the motor that forcing the two motors to stay parallel to the rotor shaft thus eliminating any motor oscillations. I may be putting too much theory in to this but the heli sounds smoother with the heat sink than without it.

Vip.
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 05:54 PM
Live, Die, FLY
Kalispell, in the Rocky Mountains
Joined Jul 2006
497 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazens1
For even better airflow, try cutting out the entire canopy window. I don't have any exact numbers, but I reckon the prop wash will keep the motors, 4in1 and battery much cooler this way. I also think there is enough room for a second heatsink stacked ontop of the first. I am goingto try a double heatsink and see if that makes a difference.
Definitly let us know how the double heatsink works out. The motors get sooo hot, I stop about halfway though the flight and let them cool off befor fireing her up again. The heatsinks are small so I dont think there should be to much problem with weight.

I cannot wate till we can get the aluminum parts, flight time may be shorter, but who cares? I have 2 lipos from my past BCX, so now I can fly counously for quite some time (till motors overheat). The best thing I think for trimming this heli, is do it EVERY time you fly. I reset everything (except trim/ poportioal pots). Happy Flying

-Dustin
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 06:17 PM
Registered User
Joined Dec 2006
23 Posts
Hi guys,

This is my 2nd Post on rcgroups - I am a regular on RCUniverse, I just read the whole 8 pages about the whole CX and CX2 experiance you all have written about and I have seen the best mods ever on this site for the BCX and BCX2.

I have never gotten the rock solid anything since my maiden cx2 flight. Before that, my CX was never perfect either.

I have experimented with shorter fly-bars and think its great but you can't shorten them to much - imo - because it gets TOO unstable - although the SNAPPY and AGGRESIVE nature of a slightly shorter flybar is very fun and challenging.

The screw on the top of the plastic inner rod/Top Rotor mount - GONE - Aluminum is supposed to be better - I've tried them both and can attest the aluminum lasts longer - but if it gets bent - its time for another.

The Swash plate in my opinion is the 2nd worst part on the bird because it separates - and that can be problematic and bird-killing. 2nd to the that is the lower rotor mount. Aluminum for that and the swash are welcome modifications in my book - regardless of a little weight - haven't tried em yet though - lwr rotor mount (alum) is on back order and the swash - well - I just haven't purchased one.

The nose drift thing - I heard one mod - that is to the controller itself - but takes a steady hand - and that is to remove the spring mechanism for the rudder. This makes it so you really don't have to "find" the zero yaw warm spot on the 4-in-1 - you just look at the bird and when you make it stop spinning - you found center. This does make for a touchy rudder however.

The comparison of the older BCX servos - the S75's against the ner digital ones - well - the guy at the LHS said that the s75 are .5 grams heavier, have less muscle, but draw less current... and the digital ones are heavier, have more muscle but draw more current as well. Me? I don't care - I've flown the BCX, the BCX2 and a hybrid - which was the new RX on the old CX core - and it was fine - perfect? Now - niether is perfect - BAD--- NO. I had a lot of fun with the hybrid. I had a 4amp fuses mod on my CX - where each motor has a small automobile 4amp fuse - and I picked up my CX hybrid by the flybar - powered and accidentally hit the controller when it brushed me - I blew the fuse and not the 4-in-1 - GOOD MOVE - but I need another fuse so I'm back to nearly 100% stock BCX2 - and its fun.

I Crash alot - I go thorugh blades and inner and outer... heck - I go through EVERY part - blades the most frequent but lower rotor mounts a close 2nd.

I like flying outside so I'm wondering if I should jump to a CP Pro - I THINK that's an outside bird... indoor/outdoor anyway... I dunno - but for now - I have quite an investment in spares etc for the bird I have - I have both a cx and a bcx2 but I say one because I only keep one flying model - everything else is parts.

I can attest to one thing that surprised me until I thought about it half a sec - THE CANOPIES are extremely "shatterable" when they get cold. I'm in new england and I've seen the fuselage seem to explode into yellow plasti-flakes! It looked like a real bird losing feathers while getting hit with a baseball (You see that video yet?) Anyway - I hope this thread keeps momentum - because I really enjoy what you folks have written about!
Later
Jason P Sage
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 09:00 PM
Illinois
Joined Jan 2005
1,720 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonpsage
Hi guys,


The comparison of the older BCX servos - the S75's against the ner digital ones - well - the guy at the LHS said that the s75 are .5 grams heavier, have less muscle, but draw less current... and the digital ones are heavier, have more muscle but draw more current as well.
Later
Jason P Sage
Hi,
FWIW, i think he may have a few facts mixed up a bit on the servos.
The 7.5 gram S75 is about 1.5 Grams heavier than the 6.0 gram S60.

I would say the S60's have an improved amplifier for a 'digital' motor drive, and a bit better centering. The gears are a bit tighter (less play) on the 60.
The S60 is a bit faster.

The S75 has more torque and is generally a little stronger.

Both have coreless motors, and have good torque and speed for the weight and price class.

The only realistic place the S60 may have more muscle is if you try to backdrive it off its commanded position a small amount. The digital amp will build up power quicker.

Hope this helps.

Have fun,
David
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 09:20 PM
John 3:16
Daddy-O's Avatar
Dom. Rep.
Joined May 2003
3,825 Posts
I took mine out again, and had the same experience as the first time. I have a hard time keeping it in a level (let's say 4 feet off the ground) position when I make the transition from hover to forward, backward, or anything flight. It seems to want to go higher when I go into forward motion. I also wish that the left gimbal (gimble?) of the Tx didn't have any notches in it. They are not terrible, but it seems like it would be easier to find a perfect hover if they weren't there. Since I am not a heli man, I know that I may be corrected on that. It just seems that way to me (that's inexperience talking though). Either way, I am having fun with mine. I'm taking it slowly, but hope to have it (general flight) down (for the most part) in a couple of weeks with daily practice.
Daddy-O
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 09:27 PM
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Michigan
Joined Apr 2001
534 Posts
Dribbe, can you give us any more info. about this?

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=611167

Thanks
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 09:40 PM
Mom says I'm special...
beafraid8's Avatar
Aurora, CO
Joined Apr 2003
2,562 Posts
And GET RID OF THE TOP SCREW right off-the-bat.

My flybar has flown off 4 times so far and I've just bent it back and popped it in. No bent inner shaft, just a couple of blades shattered. Why IS that screw there anyway??!?
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 11:06 PM
Formerly P4 Hover
San Jose, California, United States
Joined May 2003
373 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazens1
For even better airflow, try cutting out the entire canopy window. I don't have any exact numbers, but I reckon the prop wash will keep the motors, 4in1 and battery much cooler this way. I also think there is enough room for a second heatsink stacked ontop of the first. I am goingto try a double heatsink and see if that makes a difference.
I have added the second heatsink, but you need to do one of two mods to get it to work:

To add the second heatsink, you will need to remove the center fin on the back side of the lower heatsink or remove the reenforcement tab on the main shaft. I suggest the first as it is less likely to cause the frame to break in a crash.

Enjoy!

-Jon
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Old Dec 19, 2006, 07:20 AM
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Joined Aug 2006
135 Posts
Second heatsink works great with no canopy window. Motors are now what feels like about 100-105 or slightly warm to the touch after a 10 minute flight and the heatsinks are a little warmer than that, probably about 110-115. I had to adjust the trim way back since 2 heatsinks adds alot of forward CG. I might try moving the battery back to recenter. Going to see how it flys at the indoor hobbyplex before making any final decisions. I had to remove the back center fin on the botton heatsink and move the 4in1 unit forward to make it fit which also moved the CG forward.
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