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Old Oct 01, 2012, 05:40 AM
It flies!!! ... so who cares ?
erdnuckel2's Avatar
Joined Mar 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kodak_jack View Post
How readily available are 2MM pinions? I haven't read about guys changing them, so, I don't remember how/ where to get them. Luv changed out the bases on my 1811's to the base for the C-10's. Again, I don't think my heli was heavy, but it would not lift on 2S and was barely adequate on 3S when using the C-10's. Going a little bigger on the motors and ESC's seemed to do the trick.
2mm pinions are fairly easy to come by if you are willing to spend the money ... a friend once sent me plastic (POM) slot car 2mm pinions from Germany in anything from 7 to 11T (I still have most of them as my only try at putting totally different motors - which means no stock, Xtreme, AeroNuts or AFC - totally failed with me being completely unable to change even a plastic pinion ... ...)
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 05:45 AM
It flies!!! ... so who cares ?
erdnuckel2's Avatar
Joined Mar 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnier00 View Post
thanks I sent you pm guess i should have done it here.
Just for fun:

These are the motors I know have been used to do a brushless conversion of either a CX2 or a LamaV4, in Germany or here ...
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 06:19 AM
OlliW
Joined Sep 2009
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moin Olli ... do you think Ralf would agree ( regarding the 3x00 ... ) ??
yes, he would for THESE 3x00... LOL... (they are just too weak for pulling 34er blades at this rpm and rather will run hot, that's at least what had been reported)

and hey, E2, you have them all... but only on the desk, not in a heli...

I think it was Ralph though who highly recommended the swanghobby, not sure anyone else tried them

Quote:
2mm pinions are fairly easy to come by
yes, but for the 3x00 KV you would need 7T or even 6T... which is very tiny for a 2mm spindle... not much flesh anymore
so, its better to start form a low KV motor and increase the pinion than vice versa (and the gear noise will also be lower then)

@KJ: it is a know issue that asian motors can have very varying performance as well as KV rating... so it easily could be that your C10s or the batch they came from had been just few 10% to weak
(as I said, if my lama would be closer to 250g, which is I guess quite normal, my setup also would barely lift, but in my case I did the test that it is not limited because the motors wouldn't produce enough power, but just that they couldn't generate the rpm, so going to a 9T pinion would probably been a good thing, but I was too lazy... since my bird is only about 200g LOL)

@All: by the way, fixed wing flyers have a rule of thumb for the motor wattage, which is something like 3 Watts per gram or so. The detailed number is not relevant here (and I might have gotten it wrong), the point is the insight which is underlying this rule: The max power is mainly limited by how fast heat can be "absorbed" and transported to the outside, hence the more massive a motor the more power it can handle...

This simple rule tells you that if you need more power than a C10/Turnigy 1811, there is not other way than to go to heavier motors... such as the roxxy or swanghobby... TNSTAFL
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 12:29 PM
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United States, WA, Spokane
Joined Oct 2010
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Agreed about the motors. However I have only one mod where the 1811-2900s failed and that was when I added the larger BOL accra blades just to test. The motor heat was a limiting factor for sure. In fact it is the single most important limiting factor in outrunner motor design.

And I agree again with OlliW here. Dont run any pinions that thin the pinion wall out too far. Not only does it weaken the pinion but the gear spread actually wears the main gears out faster and produce more noise. I have run everything from 8 to 14t pinions.

On the Turnigy 1811 motors you simply must let them breathe. Once I opened up the canopy top to allow the trailing edge of the blades to waft air over the Turnigy motor cans it solved all my problems. (In fact this was the core of my own carbonfibre blade design was the introduction of the overlapping funtional blade root. It eliminated the dead grip area where there was no lift down the center area, and helped cool the electronics)
By letting the motor cans breathe, I could suddenly add the needed weight I needed to have for outdoor flying (to handle the wind) and to change the cog of the heli so it would bank correctly. As of yet I cannot outfly these simple cheap motors on 3s, and they are coming down barely warm. As are the Turnigy 10a esc's. And I am getting full 14min flight times out of mine and punishing it. Also once the weight was added, (mostly battery), it enabled the gyromixer to fully dial in the heli with the increased headspeed. One of the problems with the lighter 2s brushless CX3 setups is the blades are moving so slowly (especially with the high lift Xtremes) that there simply isn't enough blade torque/momentum being generated for any gyro to work at its optimum. Once blade speed was increased the added motor/drivetrain momentum allowed them to compensate much more quickly to gyro commands. But with fixed pitch blades I had to both change the blades and add weight and 3s power to achieve this. None of this would be truly possible without the advanced brushless mod.
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Old Oct 04, 2012, 05:39 AM
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Hilton (Rochester), NY
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To optimize the head speed, did you see any advantages to changing from the stock pinion?
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Old Oct 04, 2012, 10:44 AM
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sonnier00's Avatar
United States, TX, Huntsville
Joined Oct 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvmyhelis View Post
On the Turnigy 1811 motors you simply must let them breathe..
When I found that to be true about the c10 I was using. I had taken the canopy off and they ran cool. I have found the motor E2 suggested for $10 bucks $3 shipping. probably got to wate a month for them but that's ok
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 10:13 AM
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United States, TX, Huntsville
Joined Oct 2011
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Well I just ordered the last 3900kv motors. I had ordered 4 and they sent me an email they have only 3 and the factory will not make the 3900kv motors I guess I will save the C10 bases just in case i need to use 1811 motors later.
Well I need so more practiced with my soldering I'm changing to paste flux that's what I used in the past. any suggestion ??

A change in subject, what do you guys up north do when it it gets cold?
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 01:34 PM
Fly em if ya got em.
leethetreeguy's Avatar
Winder Ga
Joined Sep 2008
11,934 Posts
Haha, a question I can answer for them!!! They snuggle!!!
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 09:59 PM
NotAnotherMomentLostToSei zures
Chap1012's Avatar
United States, MA, Malden
Joined Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnier00 View Post
Well I just ordered the last 3900kv motors. I had ordered 4 and they sent me an email they have only 3 and the factory will not make the 3900kv motors I guess I will save the C10 bases just in case i need to use 1811 motors later.
Well I need so more practiced with my soldering I'm changing to paste flux that's what I used in the past. any suggestion ??

A change in subject, what do you guys up north do when it it gets cold?
How long do these BL motors last that you ordered? I think I'll stay with my Aero~Nuts

"""What do you guys up north do when it gets cold?"""
The mid-west farmers daughters really make you feel alright
And the northern girls with the way they kiss
They keep their boyfriends warm at night


I wish they all could be california
I wish they all could be california
I wish they all could be california girls

They really meant "Massachusetts" girls

Mike.
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 10:20 PM
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United States, TX, Huntsville
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Originally Posted by Chap1012 View Post
How long do these BL motors last that you ordered? I think I'll stay with my Aero~Nuts;
Mike.
yep that what I though

I under stand they used them Europe and the guys I worked with where pretty cheap so I would they would last for a time or two.
I took a look at aero-nuts the 14xx looked no better then the c10 used looking at the wires that is do the wire hold up? The 19xx look nice but the 2.3mm shafts, how can I get around that CX have small pinions ?
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 12:55 AM
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United States, TX, Huntsville
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Hey Guys, I got a (2) question (imagine that) this motor http://www.aero-nuts.com/product_inf...oducts_id=505= with 9t or10t pinion it's a 2050kv 39g motor> Would that be going the right way?
when calc. motor rpm it would be 23k plus kv x 11.4v??? Just asking to see if I'm in the ball park with my engineering skills.(hahaha)
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 02:42 AM
OlliW
Joined Sep 2009
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if the figures on the page are correct I wouldn't be sure if you're going to be happy with them
1) weigth of 39g each... the turnigy 1811 is listed at 12g...
2) despite the weigth the stator is only 18x8mm^2... the C10/turnigy1811 is 18x8 too
3) shaft diameter 2.3mm... stock is 2mm

almost the same physical size yet 3.5 times heavier?
almost the same physical size -> there should any additional power as compared to tunrigy1811 come from?

BTW: with Aero~Nuts I think he most likely meant the brushed Aero~Nuts... http://www.aero-nuts.com/product_rev...&reviews_id=26
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 06:35 AM
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Hilton (Rochester), NY
Joined Mar 2008
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Aero-Nutz makes many motors including brushless motors.
We northerners usually get a palm size something or another to fly. I have an MCX-2 and just ordered a Walkera Ladybird palm size quad. Our lousy weather is at least 7 months long.
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 10:54 AM
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sonnier00's Avatar
United States, TX, Huntsville
Joined Oct 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlliW View Post
if the figures on the page are correct I wouldn't be sure if you're going to be happy with them
1) weigth of 39g each... the turnigy 1811 is listed at 12g...
2) despite the weigth the stator is only 18x8mm^2... the C10/turnigy1811 is 18x8 too
3) shaft diameter 2.3mm... stock is 2mm

almost the same physical size yet 3.5 times heavier?
almost the same physical size -> there should any additional power as compared to tunrigy1811 come from?

BTW: with Aero~Nuts I think he most likely meant the brushed Aero~Nuts... http://www.aero-nuts.com/product_rev...&reviews_id=26
I was told on the motor design and construction forum that the rule of thumb is for ever g of weight 3g of thrust (power) it would have a lot!!

where the weight comes from maybe the windings copper?? I dont know Olliw

His motor I'm sure is brushed I was just looking at their (Aero-Nuts) stock.

was I right rpm=kv x v ?

KJ nice bird the Walkera Ladybird palm size quad I'm sure you let us know how it fly's
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Last edited by sonnier00; Oct 06, 2012 at 10:56 AM. Reason: SPELLING
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 11:15 AM
NotAnotherMomentLostToSei zures
Chap1012's Avatar
United States, MA, Malden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlliW View Post
BTW: with Aero~Nuts I think he most likely meant the brushed Aero~Nuts... http://www.aero-nuts.com/product_rev...&reviews_id=26
@sonnier00 OlliW is correct. I was talking about the brushed Aero~Nuts motors. I had forgotten they make BL motors too. Sorry for any confusion

@Jack Don't you have a MQX quad as well?

Mike.
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