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Old Nov 20, 2011, 10:36 PM
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Randy, one weakness of the Xtreme shafts is the way they put the flats on the shafts for the set screws (see my similar reply in the Lama 4 thread ). Just put a shallow flat on the shaft as the deeper flat is exactly where it is weak and bends. At one point, we were talking about trying regular old drill rod without any hardening.
When we are talking CX-2 composite or aluminum blade grips by Xtreme, there is no way those are flexing. I can see the blade stiffeners being good for the Lama grips and the roots of whatever blade is put on them.
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 12:11 AM
Team Daedalus
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Originally Posted by kodak_jack View Post
Randy, one weakness of the Xtreme shafts is the way they put the flats on the shafts for the set screws (see my similar reply in the Lama 4 thread ). Just put a shallow flat on the shaft as the deeper flat is exactly where it is weak and bends. At one point, we were talking about trying regular old drill rod without any hardening.
When we are talking CX-2 composite or aluminum blade grips by Xtreme, there is no way those are flexing. I can see the blade stiffeners being good for the Lama grips and the roots of whatever blade is put on them.
My buddy god bless him, couldn't fly a CX2 for his life. After a year, tons of helping him work on it. He kindly payed me about 20 cents on the dollar for my new pair of Xtreme alu. grips. As the mighty RC guy in the sky would have it.

Properly installed, he went to my basement to fly. Poped it up fast and to high, hit the ceiling light. The little fancy nub sticking from the lamps cover.

He split an aluminum holder in half. In 60 seconds of owning it.

Honestly, I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it. Didn't hit the lamp, at all, just a piece smaller than an eraser.

Todd
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolveslayr View Post
My buddy god bless him, couldn't fly a CX2 for his life. After a year, tons of helping him work on it. He kindly payed me about 20 cents on the dollar for my new pair of Xtreme alu. grips. As the mighty RC guy in the sky would have it.

Properly installed, he went to my basement to fly. Poped it up fast and to high, hit the ceiling light. The little fancy nub sticking from the lamps cover.

He split an aluminum holder in half. In 60 seconds of owning it.

Honestly, I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it. Didn't hit the lamp, at all, just a piece smaller than an eraser.

Todd
There are some people who just have a knack for that kind of stuff.
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 11:54 AM
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Hey Kj, I did make quite a run of softer non hardened shafts. One easy pop, and they were bent. You can even bend them at the top just tightening the grub. So I abandoned them. I have 30 of them sitting in a drawer. Maybe I will use them for a statue? Haha.

On the last shafts I made in january, I cut two small reliefs exactly opposite each other and they are working well. And they have been through two recent inside full throttle impacts, hit the ceiling then the floor (lost throttle due to parts failure). And numerous outside crashes that were bad enough to shatter the blades. The shafts are still perfect. Or is it the upper flat you are referring to?
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Luvmyhelis View Post
Hey Kj, I did make quite a run of softer non hardened shafts. One easy pop, and they were bent. You can even bend them at the top just tightening the grub. So I abandoned them. I have 30 of them sitting in a drawer. Maybe I will use them for a statue? Haha.

On the last shafts I made in january, I cut two small reliefs exactly opposite each other and they are working well. And they have been through two recent inside full throttle impacts, hit the ceiling then the floor (lost throttle due to parts failure). And numerous outside crashes that were bad enough to shatter the blades. The shafts are still perfect. Or is it the upper flat you are referring to?
The upper flat has to endure that 12MM extension on top of it with a whirling set of blades and a flybar. There's a lot of force on something that has been weakened by a too deep flat that cuts into it and it's hardly 3/8" from the very end of the shaft. Like I said, you just have to look at it funny and it'll bend. It's completely unsupported up at the end.
If you jammed the heli into the floor joists and then dropped it on the floor, why would you be worried about the gear end as opposed to the top? I've never had one bend at the bottom.
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 12:41 PM
"whirlydude"
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Originally Posted by kodak_jack View Post
The upper flat has to endure that 12MM extension on top of it with a whirling set of blades and a flybar. There's a lot of force on something that has been weakened by a too deep flat that cuts into it and it's hardly 3/8" from the very end of the shaft. Like I said, you just have to look at it funny and it'll bend. It's completely unsupported up at the end.
If you jammed the heli into the floor joists and then dropped it on the floor, why would you be worried about the gear end as opposed to the top? I've never had one bend at the bottom.
The same holds true for the 400D. I wish there was a supershaft for it also!
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 12:55 PM
It flies!!! ... so who cares ?
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Originally Posted by flyeraroo View Post
The same holds true for the 400D. I wish there was a supershaft for it also!
The problem with the 400D is the "unconventional" inner shaft thickness of 2.5mm - did you ever try to look for inner shaft material (in "household quantities", not as someone who wants to produce inner shafts)??

It is MUCH easier to get a bit of 3mm diameter wire than with 2.5mm (which is an uncommon mm-measure ... and even more uncommon in a place where everything evolves around inches ...)

(I have some extended Skytec shafts that fit the 400D, but they are 100CR6 steel and also polished and hardened ... which makes them really expensive - but I have not yet tried them out ... ...)
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by flyeraroo View Post
The same holds true for the 400D. I wish there was a supershaft for it also!
Actually, Lee the treeguy provides these. Pm him. Although I wholeheartedly agree with E2 about shaft diameter problems and will endorse the 3mm shaft right up front as a superior fix. The 2.5mm shafts have a well known tendency to bend at the top junction. The 3mm shafts are quite literally twice as tough. It is worth the cost and hassle to get them into the 400D. This requires larger inside dia upper and lower bearings, and the Lee custom shaft. The ones Sven mentioned will be clearly superior. On my project these weren't as of yet available. But I did upgrade into skytec gears, outer shaft, and upper collar to accommodate the larger 3mm shaft. I consider the benefits of this upgrade a simple no brainer.
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by kodak_jack View Post
The upper flat has to endure that 12MM extension on top of it with a whirling set of blades and a flybar. There's a lot of force on something that has been weakened by a too deep flat that cuts into it and it's hardly 3/8" from the very end of the shaft. Like I said, you just have to look at it funny and it'll bend. It's completely unsupported up at the end.
If you jammed the heli into the floor joists and then dropped it on the floor, why would you be worried about the gear end as opposed to the top? I've never had one bend at the bottom.
Oddly, again I have had great luck with the 505 shafts Helitec-rc made here. And even Lee's test shafts he sent me to try. They seemed to flex a little and pop right back. And this is one area I will have to endorse a few of Svens products. With his oddball thicker outer shaft he provided me, and the sliding upper collar, I have one heli with dozens and dozens of crashes still flying with the original extended shaft. The way it is inserted into the head the flat is fully enclosed and the shaft bend point remains a full 2mm thick. There is no exposed shaft to bend.

And even running the other Lee shaft on another heli I still am also running the same shaft as the flat again is fully extended up into the L4 head. The only shaft exposed is still a full 2mm. I have also run the stock eflite head, and the cheezy aftermarket chrome L4 china knockoff head with great results. I guess I am trying to understand how a fully enclosed flat is bending that is using tempered steel?
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 07:22 PM
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Hilton (Rochester), NY
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Originally Posted by Luvmyhelis View Post
Oddly, again I have had great luck with the 505 shafts Helitec-rc made here. And even Lee's test shafts he sent me to try. They seemed to flex a little and pop right back. And this is one area I will have to endorse a few of Svens products. With his oddball thicker outer shaft he provided me, and the sliding upper collar, I have one heli with dozens and dozens of crashes still flying with the original extended shaft. The way it is inserted into the head the flat is fully enclosed and the shaft bend point remains a full 2mm thick. There is no exposed shaft to bend.

And even running the other Lee shaft on another heli I still am also running the same shaft as the flat again is fully extended up into the L4 head. The only shaft exposed is still a full 2mm. I have also run the stock eflite head, and the cheezy aftermarket chrome L4 china knockoff head with great results. I guess I am trying to understand how a fully enclosed flat is bending that is using tempered steel?
I'm talking about a 2MM shaft with a sideways U-shaped cut a good 30% of shaft thickness deep with a 12 MM Xtreme head on it with blades and flybar zipping around. You can't understand why it would bend where the deep flat is cut?
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by kodak_jack View Post
I wasn't necessarily talking about Xtreme and their mass produced mod parts, I thought we were talking about companies making coax heli's and whether there was a big enough market for them to continue. Some people jump up from coax's to CP's, but not all. Some try making the move and then decide to come back to where their comfort zone is.
IMHO, good co-ax helicopters are a great way for someone to try a hobby, entertain the kids or just relax a bit flying in your basement.

I have seen the steady decline in parts and selection at my LHS's.

I believe it is the manufacturers / distributors who have shifted the emphasis towards tiny FP, CP RTF birds. I bet they (dealers et. al.) make more $ upfront selling micros.

Mind you I am all to aware of spending $9 on an outer shaft (parts profit margin) only to get a B400 and pay less for TWO solid steel shafts.

My conclusion is they found people didn't stick with the co-ax. They bring out mSR, SR, SR120, mCP X hoping people will try one decide they need the new better one and it's big brother which makes dealers happy.

The long term effect on how many new people will stick with RC heli's is yet to be known.

Todd
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kodak_jack View Post
I'm talking about a 2MM shaft with a sideways U-shaped cut a good 30% of shaft thickness deep with a 12 MM Xtreme head on it with blades and flybar zipping around. You can't understand why it would bend where the deep flat is cut?
All of the Helitek-RC shafts had a flat cut into the top of them that were fairly deep (although rarely U shaped). I've never heard of one bending at the flat EVER. I did have a guy drop a helicopter 150 feet and bend one into an L shape when it hit concrete, but it bent at the point where it exited the outer shaft bearing, not at the flat.
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Old Nov 22, 2011, 01:51 AM
"whirlydude"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barak1001 View Post
All of the Helitek-RC shafts had a flat cut into the top of them that were fairly deep (although rarely U shaped). I've never heard of one bending at the flat EVER. I did have a guy drop a helicopter 150 feet and bend one into an L shape when it hit concrete, but it bent at the point where it exited the outer shaft bearing, not at the flat.
I agree, when I've had them bend on both the cx and 400 they have bent between the upper head and the bearing. Unless it was a really bad one, and bent the outer shaft, but I can't remember the last time that happened.
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Old Nov 22, 2011, 10:47 AM
NotAnotherMomentLostToSei zures
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United States, MA, Malden
Joined Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barak1001 View Post
All of the Helitek-RC shafts had a flat cut into the top of them that were fairly deep (although rarely U shaped). I've never heard of one bending at the flat EVER. I did have a guy drop a helicopter 150 feet and bend one into an L shape when it hit concrete, but it bent at the point where it exited the outer shaft bearing, not at the flat.
Kinda like this? LOL

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2438

Had to edit so you could see a larger pic
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Old Nov 22, 2011, 10:58 AM
Fly em if ya got em.
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Winder Ga
Joined Sep 2008
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I remember that shaft. ahahahahaha. I fixed it. Straightened it out and flew it myself. hahahahaha
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