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Old Nov 20, 2011, 03:52 AM
Team Daedalus
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Joined Jun 2008
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Gang in your opinion would an inner shaft made of 7075 aircraft aluminum be more durable that stock?

http://www.xheli.com/ek5-0206.html

Crash right it'll bend IMHO. If you know otherwise please correct me.

Todd
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Old Nov 20, 2011, 05:54 AM
It flies!!! ... so who cares ?
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Originally Posted by Wolveslayr View Post
Gang in your opinion would an inner shaft made of 7075 aircraft aluminum be more durable that stock?

http://www.xheli.com/ek5-0206.html

Crash right it'll bend IMHO. If you know otherwise please correct me.

Todd
U wanna know my opinion?
EVERY shaft is gonna bent if you "crash right" - absolutely no matter how good or how expensive.
But ... the severity of how you have to crash to "crash right" will change with the material.
Now, this particular thing is (or at least it looks like it is, and the description supports this perception) an 'origininal' ESKY inner shaft/aluminum head combo. If you do NOT have a V4, you can surely use this, but it is going to be suboptimal to begin with, because the groove that the flybar hub sits in is a minimally different size for the CX than it is for the V4 - they are NOT 100% identical. Other than that, I'm sure it will work ... more or less.
The other thing I would recommend to think about, is that this is the most basic head design you can find (identical to the stock head, and the shaft is stock length too, if I see that right). So if you would buy this to decrease your probability of blade strikes, you'd be most likely disappointed. What it will do is stop your flybar from flying off if you crash (what is not necessarily a good thing per se) and enable you to do a bullet mod if you want to fly outside.
Oh, and of course, the only thing that can be 7075 Aluminum here, is the head - the shaft is ALWAYS steel! (And on top of all that I would like someone to proof to me scientifically that this is 7075 and not just a "marketing instrument" ... I have seen much more expensive one where they posted it is 6061 to be "better" - and that is only one level "below" the 7075 ... even all the Xtreme stuff seemed to be 6061, not 7075.)

With all that in mind ... for the price they offer it, it will probably do a decent job ... on a V4 ... if you got a CX, I would be careful. But overall this head will not be able to live up completely to what they make it look like/what you might expect because of reading their "ad". There IS a reason, why there are aluminum heads that are WAY more expensive than that.

E2
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Old Nov 20, 2011, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolveslayr View Post
Gang in your opinion would an inner shaft made of 7075 aircraft aluminum be more durable that stock?

http://www.xheli.com/ek5-0206.html

Crash right it'll bend IMHO. If you know otherwise please correct me.

Todd
Despite the EK designation in the part number, it is NOT an Eastman Kodak Co. part. That designation is for stock Esky parts. A better fit is an Xtreme part. You can get an 8MM or 12MM extension. With their parts, it isn't the shaft that is longer, but the head itself. The purpose is to give you more separation between the top and bottom blades so you don't get blade strikes. The part that is shown is a stock length and does not give you more separation. It's for bling only. For some reason, this ad doesn't tell you if it's 8MM or 12MM. Maybe the 12 MM is the standard offering now.
http://helidirect.com/xtreme-extende...cx3-p-5218.hdx
Once you have the 8MM or 12 MM extended head, if you should crash and bend the shaft, it can be replaced by any (Eflite or Xtreme) inner shaft. For that matter, you can buy 2MM steel rod and make your own.
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Old Nov 20, 2011, 07:30 AM
It flies!!! ... so who cares ?
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Joined Mar 2009
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Originally Posted by kodak_jack View Post
Despite the EK designation in the part number, it is NOT an Eastman Kodak Co. part. That designation is for stock Esky parts. A better fit is an Xtreme part. You can get an 8MM or 12MM extension. With their parts, it isn't the shaft that is longer, but the head itself. The purpose is to give you more separation between the top and bottom blades so you don't get blade strikes. The part that is shown is a stock length and does not give you more separation. It's for bling only. For some reason, this ad doesn't tell you if it's 8MM or 12MM. Maybe the 12 MM is the standard offering now.
http://helidirect.com/xtreme-extende...cx3-p-5218.hdx
Once you have the 8MM or 12 MM extended head, if you should crash and bend the shaft, it can be replaced by any (Eflite or Xtreme) inner shaft. For that matter, you can buy 2MM steel rod and make your own.
The Xtreme CX upper head does not tell you, what kind of extension it is (8 or 12), because for the CX there is only one! But if you have a CX, you will need that one, as the head is "thinner" where the blade holders attach, so otherwise you would need to change everything on the upper head to V4 also ....

(And I think, this will be an 8mm extension, if any ...)
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Old Nov 20, 2011, 07:45 AM
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MicroHeli Blades?

I have commented that I ordered a pair/ set of blades from a dealer and got the blades and a MicroHeli head in the package. I came across the stuff yesterday and noticed the pair of MicroHeli blades I got have the rippled edge on them like a stock CX-2 blade would have, except the root end allows for them to pivot. I remember when I ordered them that I did not get a full set, only the lower blades. Is this because they are very old blades and MicroHeli does not make them anymore - they were old stock? I wonder if the wavy edge stiffens them so they don't curl? I think if Eflite or some aftermarket company would retain that feature, but make the ends pivot like the ones I got, it might be a decent blade. Has anyone ever found CF blades for this size coax?
I think one of the things that's attractive about Luv's CX-2 build is better horizontal flight under throttle without a corresponding increase in lift. I could care less about flying 100 feet up. As a matter of fact, the higher you go the more the wind you don't feel at ground level is going to take that heli for an unexpected ride. If you have trees to deal with in your flying area, it is usually prudent to stay below the limbs rather than going up and over, so, minimal lift can be a very good thing. I think one of the things we've discussed a while ago is being able to adapt a CP head to our needs and then locking the blades in at the "optimum" angle to achieve minimal lift. It's too bad that most technology is aimed at CP heli's. I've seen bits and pieces of what students have done in Japan with high end coax machines, but then it seems to end when the class project is done.
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Old Nov 20, 2011, 09:27 AM
"whirlydude"
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Originally Posted by Wolveslayr View Post
Gang in your opinion would an inner shaft made of 7075 aircraft aluminum be more durable that stock?

http://www.xheli.com/ek5-0206.html

Crash right it'll bend IMHO. If you know otherwise please correct me.

Todd
The best inner shaft that I came across was the super shaft that Helitek was selling before going out of business. They came in 3 different sizes, the standard, 1.0, and a 2.0, which gave the most separation between rotor blades. I use the 2.0 on both my cx's, and they stand up much better than Eflite or Xtreme shaft ever did. I don't know what type of harden steel they were made of, but it takes alot to bend one. I have bent them before, but anyone that has used them will admit they are superior in strength to what was being sold.
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Old Nov 20, 2011, 09:56 AM
NotAnotherMomentLostToSei zures
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Originally Posted by flyeraroo View Post
The best inner shaft that I came across was the super shaft that Helitek was selling before going out of business. They came in 3 different sizes, the standard, 1.0, and a 2.0, which gave the most separation between rotor blades. I use the 2.0 on both my cx's, and they stand up much better than Eflite or Xtreme shaft ever did. I don't know what type of harden steel they were made of, but it takes alot to bend one. I have bent them before, but anyone that has used them will admit they are superior in strength to what was being sold.
It is my understanding that you can get the identical shaft as the 2.0 supershaft from "Leethetreeguy."

Mike.
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Old Nov 20, 2011, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Chap1012 View Post
It is my understanding that you can get the identical shaft as the 2.0 supershaft from "Leethetreeguy."

Mike.
Yes, I have two of them Lee sent me to test. They held up well. Although Tony and Edit: Ernies grooving was clearly superior. I still have a hard time figuring out how they dremmeled the grooves. I spent untold hours playing with the shafts I built and was never able to grind a flat that nicely. One thing that is critical is the flat has to be perfectly flat, or the gear will try and pull to the end where the flat is deeper. On the Helitec-RC shafts they were perfect.


Whatever you do, do not buy nor use the cheezy Xtreme garbage extended heads. There have been years of postings (including E2's) of how horrific the machining is on them. And when using the extended shafts I would most certainly dump the stock eflite blades and grips and go with the L4 system at the least. If not them then use the Xtreme folding grip mod. But I vastly prefer the Skytec lower hub when doing so as the pin guides are much longer and cradle the links without having to do the shortened ball mod on the grips. This mod will severely limit swash angles, as the links will actually pop off the Xtreme grips when flying agressively Unless of coarse you are just hovering around. But, what fun is that?

I am actually in process of making about 100 or so of the 2mm 2.0 shafts with aluminum spacer collars with Tony's approval. The .078 american measured rod tends to rattle around in the lower and upper bearings. They take a minimum of a 95 hardness wire, and the wire must come pre tempered. Out of the large amount of wire I ordered to test only about two thirds of it was able to be used due to straightness issues. Another third of this failed in the machining process for one reason or another. Now I am building a jig for them and buying a dremel mount fixture. But I expect to have a source for these by the end of Dec.
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Old Nov 20, 2011, 03:04 PM
NotAnotherMomentLostToSei zures
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Luv, Did you consider V-blocks to help you? I know you can only do one at a time, but you could get better at it.
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&rh=n%3A401605011&page=1

Mike.
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Old Nov 20, 2011, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Luvmyhelis View Post
Yes, I have two of them Lee sent me to test. They held up well. Although Tony and Buzz's grooving was clearly superior. I still have a hard time figuring out how they dremmeled the grooves. I spent untold hours playing with the shafts I built and was never able to grind a flat that nicely. One thing that is critical is the flat has to be perfectly flat, or the gear will try and pull to the end where the flat is deeper. On the Helitec-RC shafts they were perfect.


Whatever you do, do not buy nor use the cheezy Xtreme garbage extended heads. There have been years of postings (including E2's) of how horrific the machining is on them. And when using the extended shafts I would most certainly dump the stock eflite blades and grips and go with the L4 system at the least. If not them then use the Xtreme folding grip mod. But I vastly prefer the Skytec lower hub when doing so as the pin guides are much longer and cradle the links without having to do the shortened ball mod on the grips. This mod will severely limit swash angles, as the links will actually pop off the Xtreme grips when flying agressively Unless of coarse you are just hovering around. But, what fun is that?

I am actually in process of making about 100 or so of the 2mm 2.0 shafts with aluminum spacer collars with Tony's approval. The .078 american measured rod tends to rattle around in the lower and upper bearings. They take a minimum of a 95 hardness wire, and the wire must come pre tempered. Out of the large amount of wire I ordered to test only about two thirds of it was able to be used due to straightness issues. Another third of this failed in the machining process for one reason or another. Now I am building a jig for them and buying a dremel mount fixture. But I expect to have a source for these by the end of Dec.
If you found a manufacturer of a cheaply priced metal collar, more power to you. I'm busy with my other projects and don't have time to machine shafts. BTW, it was Ernie and Tony, not Buzz and Tony. Ernie and I did Helitek-RC. Buzz and I are going to be doing Focus Hobbies, if I can ever get out of the prototype stage.

Here's a sample of what I'm currently working on, so you can see why I'm not bothering with helicopter parts, and before anyone says it, yes I know I need to clean that window.
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Old Nov 20, 2011, 04:54 PM
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Thanks Tony, it is only because you are on to those more lucrative projects that I am even giving any thought to providing these shafts at all. I simply cannot tell you how many personal pms I have gotten by guys looking for these now.

And thanks Chap! Much appreciated. Tony and I spent time talking about jigs, but in relationship to his cnc machine. We came to the conclusion that the tempered rod would play hell with his expensive cnc bits.

Using a Makita/portercable porting tool or high speed hand tool makes this complex since I do have to address them one at a time and have a stable consistent fixture to clamp them into. And a consistent stable mount for the grinder also. I am really trying to keep the costs down so I don't have to pass on large setup costs to guys. These are in the end just coaxial helis. And even though I have taken these as far as they can go, I don't see anyone else wanting to spend a penny more than necessary on these to keep them in the air.
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Old Nov 20, 2011, 07:26 PM
Team Daedalus
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My goal is just to have something to fly indoors this winter. I saw the mCX2 for $89 and thought it might give me my winter heli flying fix.

Having owned multiple CX2's I've tried the extended head ...meh. Xtreme metal folding grips and although they flew nice. What a waste of money. Went with the stock Lama plastic grips.

I modified the flybar link to grip as well as other parts that don't transfer directly from Lama to CX2. Flew it ~ a year with great results.

All I need are inner and outer shafts and gears. Jamie has a nice replaceable outshaft gear as well as the same delryn(sp) lower gear.

I think I may just buy 4-5 each of the stock shafts and gears as they get rarer.

Forgive me if I repeat myself. I believe my Xtreme motors (4 +brushes) drew to many amp and toasted the 10C's I had. That problem is solved (25c ~$5-6 nanos)

Thanks to all who chimed in. This for me is just a way to take a break at half time or when I have 15-20 min. So I won't do it if it approaches $90. I have already spent the $ (2yrs. ago) Current estimate is ~$50 to repair with xtreme blades, HK nanos and Jamies gears. I'll make the inner shaft from piano wire if need be. Got the extended head, metal and plastic lower grip holders etc.

Lastly, can any body see the X 180 motors, X blades (plastic grips) with 850 25C batts. Being TOO much for the 3-1? I blow them and back to square one.

TIA

Todd
Gosh, just realized I missed this forum. Still crazy after all these years. (8^D)
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Old Nov 20, 2011, 08:15 PM
NotAnotherMomentLostToSei zures
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Originally Posted by Barak1001 View Post

Here's a sample of what I'm currently working on, so you can see why I'm not bothering with helicopter parts, and before anyone says it, yes I know I need to clean that window.
Sorry "T" you completely lost me. Your window looks fine but what about the pics you posted? One pic does look sharper than the other but, I don't understand the pic of the baby with the year "2011" underneath.

What exactly are you working on...if you don't mind me asking?

Mike.
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Old Nov 20, 2011, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Chap1012 View Post
Sorry "T" you completely lost me. Your window looks fine but what about the pics you posted? One pic does look sharper than the other but, I don't understand the pic of the baby with the year "2011" underneath.

What exactly are you working on...if you don't mind me asking?

Mike.
People can send pics to Tony and he can transpose those pics onto just about any media in 3d with his fantastically cool custom built cnc machine. And also add in quite a few cool effects.

Also Wolf, those Xtreme heads are total garbage. If you make your own extended shaft simply use the stock Lama or Eflite top and they work just fine. I also have had great luck with the stock lama plastic folding grips. However under full power they do tend to cone. The supposed blade stiffeners are actually grip stiffeners. These little cheap plastic plates help keep the plastic grips from flexing upwards.
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Old Nov 20, 2011, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Chap1012 View Post
Sorry "T" you completely lost me. Your window looks fine but what about the pics you posted? One pic does look sharper than the other but, I don't understand the pic of the baby with the year "2011" underneath.

What exactly are you working on...if you don't mind me asking?

Mike.
Those aren't pictures. Those are lithophane carvings. Literally they are images carved into 3/16 thick plastic in relief/as photo negatives. You can only see the image properly when light is shining through it, thus the reason I put them in the window.

The one that is darker was the first run of that photo. I didn't like the way it looked so I cut another one using more contrast and brightness on the original image. The lithophane with 2011 under it is a hanging ornament that can be hung on a Christmas tree or on a window with a suction cup.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithophane

Here is a lithophane I cut of my kids. I'm including the unlit and lit versions this time so you can see the difference.

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