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Old Jul 15, 2010, 02:16 PM
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MK2 version of extended bearing holder for extended rotor head.

Hi all' just finished MK 2 slim version of extended bearing holder for use with extended upper rotor head' it now uses stock size bearings' only better quality. There's now 75MM separation between blades' but still not sure what the ideal is? any ideas? but it flys brilliant' with no run out on spool up and it's a lot smoother due to the way the rotor head sit's in the bearing rather than sitting on the bearing as it does with the stock set up' it's also a lot less critical if the inner shaft is not dead straight' as all it does is drive the rotor head?. see pic's glo
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Old Jul 15, 2010, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by gloworm View Post
Hi all' just finished MK 2 slim version of extended bearing holder for use with extended upper rotor head' it now uses stock size bearings' only better quality. There's now 75MM separation between blades' but still not sure what the ideal is? any ideas? but it flys brilliant' with no run out on spool up and it's a lot smoother due to the way the rotor head sit's in the bearing rather than sitting on the bearing as it does with the stock set up' it's also a lot less critical if the inner shaft is not dead straight' as all it does is drive the rotor head?. see pic's glo
Nice job. I don't think there is an ideal dimension. I would think there has to be a point where it would tend to get top heavy if it's too high up there. You may be at the max right now.
Hey, Sven, I'll have to send an email to our buddies at Miracle Mart. It's been two weeks and I haven't seen anything of the magic links they sent separately.
EDIT: I just got an email back from Miracle Mart and Connie Chu says I have to give it until the end of the month because the links aren't coming by air mail as she originally said they would be. I think somebody is walking them over.
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Old Jul 17, 2010, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by kodak_jack View Post
Nice job. I don't think there is an ideal dimension. I would think there has to be a point where it would tend to get top heavy if it's too high up there. You may be at the max right now.
Hey, Sven, I'll have to send an email to our buddies at Miracle Mart. It's been two weeks and I haven't seen anything of the magic links they sent separately.
EDIT: I just got an email back from Miracle Mart and Connie Chu says I have to give it until the end of the month because the links aren't coming by air mail as she originally said they would be. I think somebody is walking them over.
HI kodak' I think you are right about the extended rotor head and bearing holder'75 MM separation between blades is as much as you want to go' there's no guarantee you will not still get blade strike' but I have flown it quite a bit without any? BFN regards glo BTW am thinking of making up a few sets if folks are interested?.
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Old Jul 17, 2010, 03:44 PM
"whirlydude"
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Does anyone know if the shims that come with the xtreme upper head are needed? They show a picture of a folding blade grip going against the shim. I know what the shims do for a collective pitch head, but for this I wonder if its for binding? I am using the xtreme head with the helitek folding grips, which has the teflon washers. Well, anyway I did install the shims as instructed, plus the teflon washers for the grips. It seems to fly very stable and smooth so I guess we are good to go.

I was looking at the instructions again, and it says to include them when shifting movements occur due to manufacturing tolerances. It must be to take up the slack if there is too much play between the grip and shaft. I just checked mine and there is no play to speak of, but there is also no binding. It seems real free and smooth, so I guess it should be good to go.
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Old Jul 17, 2010, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by whirlydude View Post
Does anyone know if the shims that come with the xtreme upper head are needed? They show a picture of a folding blade grip going against the shim. I know what the shims do for a collective pitch head, but for this I wonder if its for binding? I am using the xtreme head with the helitek folding grips, which has the teflon washers. Well, anyway I did install the shims as instructed, plus the teflon washers for the grips. It seems to fly very stable and smooth so I guess we are good to go.

I was looking at the instructions again, and it says to include them when shifting movements occur due to manufacturing tolerances. It must be to take up the slack if there is too much play between the grip and shaft. I just checked mine and there is no play to speak of, but there is also no binding. It seems real free and smooth, so I guess it should be good to go.
A few pics would be nice. I have an Xtreme head and it didn't come with shims. I have the "Xtreme" composite grips and, excuse the pun, they didn't come with jack!! My composite grips came with cups that are like bushings that go between the grip and the pins on the rotor head that the grips pivot on. Is that what you mean?
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Old Jul 17, 2010, 10:16 PM
"whirlydude"
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Originally Posted by kodak_jack View Post
A few pics would be nice. I have an Xtreme head and it didn't come with shims. I have the "Xtreme" composite grips and, excuse the pun, they didn't come with jack!! My composite grips came with cups that are like bushings that go between the grip and the pins on the rotor head that the grips pivot on. Is that what you mean?
kodak, my xtreme aluminum grips came with the same bushing that your talking about. These shims are just a small, very thin little flat metal washer that goes behind the grip and next to the head itself. I didn't know if I should install them, since I was using the teflon washer that came with the helitek grips. With the shims installed, there is very little play between the grips and the head. I checked my xtreme grips, and there was about the same amount of play with them. I think as thin as they are one could omit them, and not have any issues. On the pic with the shaft and head you can see the one shim I slid out from the head. (left side) The other side the shim is tight to the head.
Reading your last post, it sounded like the longer links still hadn't shown up. What a bummer! Did you ever try making any, or are you going to wait it out?
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Old Jul 18, 2010, 02:23 AM
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i replaced inner/outer shafts, up/low rotors, flybar on my stock CX2, it runs beautiful and smooth now but it wants to give strong left rudder.

ive got the 3in1 trim pot at its max, and also used a fair bit of trim in the radio to compensate so its pretty good now but adding throttle for a strong climb makes it torque left more.



when i replaced it all i checked it as per exploded views to make sure no parts were missing or wrong, then levelled the swash as per this thread, but need to check flybar tracking /adjust flybar link.

its all totally stock setup, with exception to the alloy head on the inner shaft.

my thinking is i have a weak motor, but i appreciate any advice/thoughts on the matter.

if it is motor, is there a cheap, simple brushless upgrade?
bliv
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Old Jul 18, 2010, 05:53 AM
"whirlydude"
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Originally Posted by Oblivion View Post
i replaced inner/outer shafts, up/low rotors, flybar on my stock CX2, it runs beautiful and smooth now but it wants to give strong left rudder.

ive got the 3in1 trim pot at its max, and also used a fair bit of trim in the radio to compensate so its pretty good now but adding throttle for a strong climb makes it torque left more.



when i replaced it all i checked it as per exploded views to make sure no parts were missing or wrong, then levelled the swash as per this thread, but need to check flybar tracking /adjust flybar link.

its all totally stock setup, with exception to the alloy head on the inner shaft.

my thinking is i have a weak motor, but i appreciate any advice/thoughts on the matter.

if it is motor, is there a cheap, simple brushless upgrade?
bliv
oblivion, that would be my guess too. I have replaced motors that have reacted the way you have described. Once you have it trimmed as far as it will go, usually means it time to replace the motor. As far as brushless goes, the plug and play type that I have seen is around 80 some dollars. This seems kind of spendy to me, but then again, it's what ever one wants.
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Old Jul 18, 2010, 07:03 AM
It flies!!! ... so who cares ?
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Originally Posted by Oblivion View Post
... snip ...


if it is motor, is there a cheap, simple brushless upgrade?
bliv

Cheap - relatively (I dont think you will find it much cheaper ... simple? - is a question of viewpoint ... if I have to "do" the pinions myself, than it is no longer simple in my book, but that is just my personal view.

Anyway, this kit is kind of what (for a while) looked like the "standard" for bl conversions in 340class helis:

http://cgi.ebay.com/180Size-Coaxial-...item2a075ee9ee

hth
Sven
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Old Jul 18, 2010, 07:21 AM
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thanks guys, looks like the answer is no (as i expected)

the stockies are cheap enough and do a decent job anyway so i'll just fit a new pair so theyre both equal condition/power output.
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Old Jul 18, 2010, 08:00 AM
"whirlydude"
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Originally Posted by Oblivion View Post
thanks guys, looks like the answer is no (as i expected)

the stockies are cheap enough and do a decent job anyway so i'll just fit a new pair so theyre both equal condition/power output.
One thing you may want to consider is upgrading your motors. I really saw an improvement in power, quietness, and smoothness from upgrading to a ball bearing motor. The aero nut motors, I believe are the less expensive, and there are the xtreme 180s, which you can get replacement brushes for. These motors are a little more, but whichever motor you go with, I think you would like the improvement. The smoother running upgraded motors I believe goes easier on the batteries also.
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Old Jul 18, 2010, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by erdnuckel2 View Post
Cheap - relatively (I dont think you will find it much cheaper ... simple? - is a question of viewpoint ... if I have to "do" the pinions myself, than it is no longer simple in my book, but that is just my personal view.

Anyway, this kit is kind of what (for a while) looked like the "standard" for bl conversions in 340class helis:

http://cgi.ebay.com/180Size-Coaxial-...item2a075ee9ee

hth
Sven
One of the questions down on the bottom of the Ebay ad brings back some memories of early conversions: "Are the motor shafts long enough for a Lama V3 or 4?" I can remember guys having problems with the shafts not being long enough.
340 class? That's bigger than a 300 class HBFP or equivalent. I thought our heli's were 180 class?
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Old Jul 18, 2010, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by whirlydude View Post
kodak, my xtreme aluminum grips came with the same bushing that your talking about. These shims are just a small, very thin little flat metal washer that goes behind the grip and next to the head itself. I didn't know if I should install them, since I was using the teflon washer that came with the helitek grips. With the shims installed, there is very little play between the grips and the head. I checked my xtreme grips, and there was about the same amount of play with them. I think as thin as they are one could omit them, and not have any issues. On the pic with the shaft and head you can see the one shim I slid out from the head. (left side) The other side the shim is tight to the head.
Reading your last post, it sounded like the longer links still hadn't shown up. What a bummer! Did you ever try making any, or are you going to wait it out?
You're right. A thin shim like that would be negligible in this application.
No, I haven't seen the links and the girl from Miracle Mart said I need to give it until the end of the month before they'll do anything because some Chinaman is probably walking them over!! They did NOT air mail them as she had originally said they did. I suppose I could just order the spare parts kit for the head from HeliDirect since this heli is just sitting here waiting for those links.
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Old Jul 18, 2010, 09:07 AM
It flies!!! ... so who cares ?
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Joined Mar 2009
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Originally Posted by kodak_jack View Post
One of the questions down on the bottom of the Ebay ad brings back some memories of early conversions: "Are the motor shafts long enough for a Lama V3 or 4?" I can remember guys having problems with the shafts not being long enough.
340 class? That's bigger than a 300 class HBFP or equivalent. I thought our heli's were 180 class?
Sorry, lately I am talking a lot in rotor diameter ... when I say "340 class" heli, then I mean the ones with a 340mm rotor diameter or, in other words exactly the Blade CX/Lama V3/4 "families" of helis ...

And regarding the length of the shafts ... after some of the guys complained loud enough that the shafts were too short, the manufacturer of these motors (and I would bet, no matter how you call these C10 motors, they ALL come from the same production plant somewhere in rural China (...)) the shaft were adjusted to have the right length (I don't know of any reports less than maybe a year and a half back, where people would still say the shafts are too short. And in the most worst case scenario, you could still just salvage the shafts out of the stock motors (MAJOR PITA and timeconsuming process, but doable (that would also save you from having to press on pinions yourself ...)... ...)

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Old Jul 18, 2010, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Oblivion View Post
thanks guys, looks like the answer is no (as i expected)

the stockies are cheap enough and do a decent job anyway so i'll just fit a new pair so theyre both equal condition/power output.
As Whirly said, either try the Aero-Nutz or maybe the AFC ones. I am always leery of Xtreme anything since their parts only have a 50% success rate. I have yet to hear of anybody replacing the brushes in an Xtreme motor and having it work right. We all know the motors have to be balanced and it just doesn't have a great success rate with Xtremes. If you have pivoting blade holders, I do recommend their blades. It's hard to mess those up.
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