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Old Jul 17, 2007, 09:44 AM
Not your average DiggsyBear
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Raleigh, NC
Joined Dec 2006
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I have flown a full pack 10+ minutes non stop. And that was a DN 900. I have also done it with the True RCs, and done close to that with stock packs.

Diggs
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Old Jul 17, 2007, 11:19 AM
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thank for responding Diggs.

More info tho. I wonder if has anything to do with the fact that I am using the 180 Extreme BB motors. They still have the Carbon brushes in them but I have silver replacement brushes that I've not yet installed. I seem to recall someone, maybe Tim, stating that the 180's require more power. To tell tlhe truth, I am not that impressed with the motors and quite probably will switch back to stock motors cause I don't see that much difference. Also Tim did indicate that he had received a "bad" batch of 180's that were running hotter. My run pretty hot and maybe I got some bad ones also. And I do have additional venting holes in my canopy.

Lastly, there is nothing binding in my running gear cause that is the first thing I checked.

One strange thing did happen tho but I do not know if it would have had an effect on the motors since I know absolutely Zero about electrical stuff.
When replacing an upper blade I lost one of the blade screws. I later found it, when I pulled the canopy off for a different reason, attached magnetically to both motors. Could this have affected my motors permanently as they were in essence kind of connected with them spinning in opposite directions?

Roger
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Old Jul 17, 2007, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matter_daddy
what does the cx2 have that the cx does not besides the new rx?
How about two extra channels to hook up whatever you'd like to run off a 5v source...I chose Led's off my channel 5 and not sure exactly what I'll do with the 6th channel yet...
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Old Jul 17, 2007, 02:31 PM
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Joined Apr 2007
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Racer57 - I get about 6-7 minutes as well, but that's not just hovering. I also have most of the aluminum upgrades though, so I wonder if that might affect it.
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Old Jul 17, 2007, 03:33 PM
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Michigan
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Racer57:
I use the 180 BB motors and get slightly longer flights than with the stock motors (around 10 minutes). They are much cooler running than the stock. That's the reason that I use them.

Either the current batch of 180 BB motors is different as Tim suggests (but didn't provide much detail) or something is causing excessive mechanical drag on your BCX(2).

The loose screw should have no effect on motor performance.
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Old Jul 17, 2007, 03:59 PM
Justabirdindasky
Bakersfield, CA.
Joined Mar 2005
94 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer57
This has been discussed before and I know that there are a lot of variables, but..........

When we talk of flight time of 10-12 minutes, that is not non-stop is it? I can't believe that it is. Even with PN Power 900 batteries there is no way I can achieve that kind of time. I can achieve 6 minutes of non-stop hover but the motors are getting pretty hot at that time.
Hi again Roger,

I have had nearly 13 min flights with many of my BCX2's, stock drive train, E-Flite 800mAh batt. That is a hover. Anything other than a hover, is like driving a car on the freeway without using the cruse control. Your foot fluctuates, using more fuel. Forward flight is the same.

I have a battery that is used exclusively for new BCX2 arrivals. Same charge, and power level every time. The same for LAMA's

This is one of the ways I check consultancies, and quality control.

If there are poor flight times, I check for anomalies, then I swap the motors to an exclusive matched motor set.

Most likely, the heat is due in part to the hover. If there's not enough forward flight. With any of the coaxial, there's potential for quite a high heat build.

The air inside the canopy, must be exchanged every second, or less.

If you hover with no canopy, does the heat seem to be as high, and can you get a meter reading of the temps, both with and without canopy?

I don't recall, but have you swapped parts for the aluminum?

What is your flying weight?

The weight has the most to do with heat issues, after air circulation.


Tim
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Old Jul 17, 2007, 04:20 PM
Crashin' n learnin'
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Hopkinsville, KY
Joined Dec 2006
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I am talking a good solid 10 minutes of continuous flying. I might land a few times just to practice landings but I take right off again.

You may want to check and be sure you don't have any binding in your shaft rotation. You need a little end play in both the inner and outer shafts to let them turn freely. I use 2 thicknesses of paper as a spacer when tighten them down and then remove the paper. That leaves about .005 to .010" end play.

If the free play is good it could be motors wearing out or LiPo not taking a good charge. But you should get at least close to 10 minutes on a single LiPo.

klondikes
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Old Jul 17, 2007, 04:22 PM
Justabirdindasky
Bakersfield, CA.
Joined Mar 2005
94 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer57
thank for responding Diggs.

More info tho. I wonder if has anything to do with the fact that I am using the 180 Extreme BB motors. They still have the Carbon brushes in them but I have silver replacement brushes that I've not yet installed. I seem to recall someone, maybe Tim, stating that the 180's require more power. To tell tlhe truth, I am not that impressed with the motors and quite probably will switch back to stock motors cause I don't see that much difference. Also Tim did indicate that he had received a "bad" batch of 180's that were running hotter. My run pretty hot and maybe I got some bad ones also. And I do have additional venting holes in my canopy.

Lastly, there is nothing binding in my running gear cause that is the first thing I checked.

One strange thing did happen tho but I do not know if it would have had an effect on the motors since I know absolutely Zero about electrical stuff.
When replacing an upper blade I lost one of the blade screws. I later found it, when I pulled the canopy off for a different reason, attached magnetically to both motors. Could this have affected my motors permanently as they were in essence kind of connected with them spinning in opposite directions?

Roger
Hi Roger,

I read that you're utilizing Xtreme 180's with carbon brushes. Try the silver brushes, and let us know the results.

All of the Xtreme 180's installed prior to the past few shipments, were smokin high RPM, and cool running. This is not so anymore.

If I would have known, I would have warned people earlier.

A screw between the motor cases won't cause a problem. The magnetic Gauss of the magnates, aren't strong enough, and a Gauss meeter couldn't detect it.

The cases of the motors are electrically isolated, other than the capacitors. The output of the 4in1's ESC's use the same ground also.


Tim
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Old Jul 17, 2007, 04:32 PM
Justabirdindasky
Bakersfield, CA.
Joined Mar 2005
94 Posts
Blade CX2 -Channel 6 LED lighting with throttle & channel 5 open for extras

Quote:
Originally Posted by forumboy2k2
How about two extra channels to hook up whatever you'd like to run off a 5v source...I chose Led's off my channel 5 and not sure exactly what I'll do with the 6th channel yet...
Hi forumboy2k2,

Try channel six with the LED's, then throttle-up.

Light on when throttling.

Channel five for retractable gear, or camera pivoting servo.


Tim
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Old Jul 17, 2007, 10:56 PM
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New 4-in-1 fixed the under power problem after turns

Hello. Though I'm not 100% sure, the new 4-in-1 seems to have fixed the low power issue during turns. What would happen was that after pirouetting or several normal turns, the red warning light would turn on and the CX2 loses power. Edit: In addition, the CX2 would contuously lose power until I made it stop pirouetting or doing normal turns. It would then regain power and able to sustain only hovering throughout the normal charge of the battery. It would lose power again everytime I made it turn. At first I thought it was a motor issue, but then I replaced the 4-in-1. Thankfully that seems to have fixed it. (Related to: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=697051 and http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=714682) With the new 4-in-1, the tail drift issue still exists, but noticeably less than before.

I haven't tried the Xtreme 180 motors yet so I can't say whether the pair I got has lower performance than the previous batches. (Related to: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1540 and http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1598). I'll hold off on replacing the motors until an inevitable major repair.

Speaking of, I did have to do a minor repair (front canopy, inner shaft, blades and flybar) after a 20' drop (on grass) due to a blade clash. After weeks of waiting for the new 4-in-1, I forgot that I moved the servo linkages to the third hole. Next time, I'll note to myself these repairs if I won't be flying it for a long time especially after such a major adjustment.

By the way, it does fly much faster on the third servo linkage holes, but of course, I can still feel it's limits at 5 to 7 mph winds. It's good to know what it feels like though even if I fly it mostly indoors.

Fun stuff! I'm excited that it's back up flying again!
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Last edited by kratos; Jul 19, 2007 at 12:11 PM.
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Old Jul 18, 2007, 10:18 AM
Hellinoob
Downingtown PA
Joined Jun 2007
16 Posts
Thanks for the reply a couple of days ago Klondikes!
It turned out that when I swapped out the outer shaft, i left the washer off the bottom of it lol.
j
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Old Jul 18, 2007, 10:48 AM
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Joined Jun 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TABLESAWTIM
Hi forumboy2k2,

Try channel six with the LED's, then throttle-up.

Light on when throttling.

Channel five for retractable gear, or camera pivoting servo.


Tim
My LEDS go on even at 0% throttle on channel 6...
I'll find something cool to do with the 5 channel...where can you find retractable gear?...although I don't know how good that'd look on this heli???
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Old Jul 18, 2007, 07:30 PM
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Has anyone tried the 4th or 5th servo hole on the CX2? How was the performance? Any comments about it? Thanks.
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Old Jul 18, 2007, 08:27 PM
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Last servo linkage hole performance rocks!

Wow. I just tried setting the pushrods to the furthest available servo linkage hole. I have much new respect for the Blade CX2. It had much better forward authority in the wind and it flew much faster than it originally did. Amazing! I had much more fun flying it than I ever did. The other good thing is that I can still fly it indoors if I want which is what I mainly intend to do with it. It's nice to have both options. Of course, it's more prone to blade clashing so I have to be extra careful. Despite that, it was definitely happy flying!!!

Edit: I moved it back one hole to reduce some swashplate "mixing." For example, when I push forward, it moves a little bit to the left. Moving it back one hole helps a little bit. This is not to get confused though with the constant tail drift issue.
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Old Jul 19, 2007, 09:47 AM
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Joined May 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klondikes
IYou may want to check and be sure you don't have any binding in your shaft rotation. You need a little end play in both the inner and outer shafts to let them turn freely. I use 2 thicknesses of paper as a spacer when tighten them down and then remove the paper. That leaves about .005 to .010" end play.
klondikes
This website is incredible and made so by the knowledgeable people who post here. This sites URL SHOULD be printed on the instructions that come with your heli.

Now for an update. Yes, Tim, I am running all aluminum parts and the day that I started having flight duration problems I had flown a lot and the ambient temperature was about 95 degrees.

Anyway, as you all probably already suspect, the reason that I have quoted klondikes is because his diagnosis was right on! Also, I wonder if the aluminum parts had expanded due to the heat of the day and lots of flying. But in any event, I checked the distance between the upper rotator and the bearing holder and it was tight. Also checked the play of the outer shaft and it also was tight at the outer shaft retaining collar. Used Klondikes method of the two paper thickness and re-adjusted in both areas, took bout two minutes and guess what. 12+MINUTES OF CONTINUOUS FLYING TIME!! Thank you everyone cause once again I am a happy camper. What a simple but perhaps overlooked solution! I was blaming motors, batteries, charger etc. Also motors not heating up nearly as much so I apologize to the Xtreme 180 people.

Last thing, I don't remember who posted the idea, but I strategically punched some holes in my canopy with a single hold paper punch. I believe that is helping also to cool the motors.

Anyhow, thanks one and all again!

Roger
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