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Old Dec 21, 2006, 05:54 PM
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Maryland, USA
Joined Mar 2006
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Had a chance to get her in the air today. Never made it to 55 degrees, more like 46 and overcast but the winds were pretty calm.

I'll begin with the final specs for my modded version:
material - FFF (Protection Board) skinned
scale - 118% (23" wingspan, 19" fuse)
motor - hexTronik 24g outrunner
ESC - hexTronik 9g
servos - 3 GWS Pico-BB
recever - GWS Pico 4ch
battery - hexTronik 460mAh 3s1p, 620mAh 3s1p
weight - naked 2.5oz, AUW (w/battery) 7.25oz


Brought the e-flight minimum to the park which consisted of the Little Go Bipe, radio, and two battery packs. Performed a range check, and glad I did! Anything more than 5' away from the plane and the servos had a mind of their own. This was quickly narrowed down and was none unexpected. Because of the very tight quarters in the fuselage I had mounted the receiver right next to the bundle of ESC AND servo wires. A two minute trip home and five minutes to get the receiver mounted to the underside of the bottom wing (just behind the aileron servo) and all was well.

Second jaunt to the park brought bliss! ROG take-off from the only suitable surface which happened to be the 3' wide walking path was very uneventful. Less than 1/5 throttle and this beauty took to flight in under 3 feet of roll-out! After a slight bit of trim she puttered around beautifully at less than 1/8 throttle. Although this is not intended to be a 3D bird it is nice to know it can harrier/hover at 1/4 throttle and exhibits unlimited vertical at 1/3 throttle! Way too much motor for this one but still very managable. Probably perfect for a 150%-175% up-scaled Little Go Bipe. Hmmmmmm...

One thing I will note is that MY particular build does require 100% hands-on and full attention while in the air. Typical for a plane of this design but probably more so in my case. I reason this due to the fact that I have a bit of reverse-dihedral in my lower wing causing a little inherent instability. I noticed this early on in the build but figured it would self-correct in the air. Well, not so with this weight model, just not enough mass in that fuse to counter it. With that noted I must admit it has no bad tendencies to speak of. Stalls are nice and predictable, tracks where you point it, and turns have no coupling that I can feel/see.

I was getting so comfortable with the new girl that I found it irresistable not to do slow inverted flybys. She looks great with those big wheels pointed towards the sky skooting by at under 2' and just over a walking pace...in level flight at that!

I was really attracted to this plane by the shapely lines of the wings and struts, now with the full fuse she has a pretty classic look to her in the air. Really glad I decided to avail myself of your generosity magic612! Looking forward to getting my little 20mm CD motor wound and picking up some small 2s1p batts in the near future for this one. Can only image how she will perform with 1oz or more shaved. The only problem I have now is the need for more motors and electronics as I have no intention of scavenging from this one any time soon!

Thanks again for the great little design. I'll be looking for your next creation as I've got a lot more of the blue stuff!

Cheers,
golem
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Old Dec 21, 2006, 06:13 PM
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Maryland, USA
Joined Mar 2006
896 Posts
Hi micob!

Thanks for the kind words! You must have posted at the same time I was.

I've listed most all my specs in my last post and it sounds like you may have just ordered $250 of the same accessories that power my Little Go Bipe. Too funny! If I've left anything out let me know. As for the video...I wish. Unfortunately I don't own a video camera nor do I have anyone near me with one. :-( If I get warmed up though I have been know on occasion to paint a pretty good picture in words. LOL

I'm subscribed to this thread so I'll be keeping an eye out for progress on yours when you get back in-country.

Cheers,
golem
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Old Dec 21, 2006, 09:27 PM
John Cock...tos...ton
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LaGrange, GA
Joined Oct 2006
117 Posts
Golem,

I must agree that your plane looks fantastic. I started mine as you can see in previos posts but was stuck until I could order a smaller battery and esc.

I got the stuff in the mail and started assembly....but got stuck on the silliest mistake ever. I pluged the esc in the 1 slot rather than the 3 on the reciever. I thought I had fried the esc ( as it is the smallest esc I have ever used) but after a servo test I found that the motor still worked. After a few more moments of scartching my head...I figured out my mistake.

I guess it would be had to fly the plane using aileron control stick to control throttle

SO now that I am unstuck...I have to also leave the country tommorow...sunny Costa Rica. So I will get some video of my maiden as soon as I return.

Sorry for the long....even senseless story, but I thought it was funny and can't wait to maiden

Hope I get the same results Golem! Again, thanks Magic for a wonderful little plane!

Merry x-mas
Stephan
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Old Dec 21, 2006, 10:28 PM
Bernoulli+Newton=Lift
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Somewhere south of Chicago, IL
Joined Jan 2006
1,952 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by golem
Second jaunt to the park brought bliss! .... Less than 1/5 throttle and this beauty took to flight in under 3 feet of roll-out! After a slight bit of trim she puttered around beautifully at less than 1/8 throttle. Although this is not intended to be a 3D bird it is nice to know it can harrier/hover at 1/4 throttle and exhibits unlimited vertical at 1/3 throttle!
Dude, I had the biggest, stupidest grin on my face while reading that. You have NO idea how good that makes me feel to read that kind of flight report.

Quote:
Originally Posted by golem
One thing I will note is that MY particular build does require 100% hands-on and full attention while in the air. Typical for a plane of this design but probably more so in my case.
Mine tends to be like that too - but perhaps that's also because I'm a relative newbie (only been at this about a year), and this was really my first jaunt with an aileron plane. All my prior ones were rudder / elevator only. So maybe that's normal for this kind of plane, as you noted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by golem
I was really attracted to this plane by the shapely lines of the wings and struts, now with the full fuse she has a pretty classic look to her in the air. Really glad I decided to avail myself of your generosity magic612! ...Thanks again for the great little design. I'll be looking for your next creation as I've got a lot more of the blue stuff!
golem - you are most welcome, kind sir. I appreciate your generous words about my little creation, but I should note that I learned a LOT from the guys on here (gpw and Gene Bond come to mind, but there are many, MANY others) by reading a lot of threads, and building several versions of this plane first - and subsequently ripping them apart to finally end up with the one here. And don't worry - I have plenty more ideas for some new, cool, weird stuff. I just wish I had more time!!!

I'm glad that you, micob and Stephan8 have been posting your designs and thoughts here too. It really is gratifying to "give some back" so to speak, and see others enjoy a new design.

With any luck, the weather will cooperate for me this weekend, and I'll get a chance to fly mine again. I just built a thrust stand tonight, so I'll be checking some different props and batteries for my 1 oz brushless motor to see what combination will work best. I'm sure it will pull more than the 4.5 oz of thrust the GWS IPS does, and I'm looking forward to finally having a bit of extra power on it!

Hopefully, I won't get myself into to much trouble, as golem, you're clearly a much better pilot than I am...
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Old Dec 21, 2006, 10:29 PM
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Maryland, USA
Joined Mar 2006
896 Posts
Hey Stephan!

I've been waiting for you to get going again. ;-) Really good to hear that all the electrics are undamaged! The story WAS kind of funny, mostly considering I did the very same thing a couple of months ago to the (at the time new) flight pack I have in this very plane. With a freshly charged battery I plugged the ESC into #4 and found nothing working. I too thought for sure I toasted at least one of the components. Not so, I got lucky as well!

Thanks for the compliment on the build! I'm sure you'll also have the same success as soon as you get back from paradise. Looking forward to the video!

Also, as Stephan was so gracious to remind me...it IS the holiday season! Merry Christmas to all who celebrate it's true meaning! ;-)

Cheers,
golem
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Old Dec 21, 2006, 11:48 PM
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Maryland, USA
Joined Mar 2006
896 Posts
Me thinks it's time to feel good magic612...BIG allowed! This was a very nice effort for a first public offering. Your dedication to fine tuning it does show through in its flight characteristics.

I, like you, have been following the designs of the other builders on this forum and you're quite right to give credit to those like Gene and gpw, those two being amongst the most prolific plans posters. Few realize what it takes to make a new design perform well. The easy part is coming up with the initial idea and producing the first airframe. It is after this point that the real work and tedium comes into play; re-designing, tweaking...over, and over... I'm indebted to each and every one of you for the plans I have "borrowed" over the last few months!

I too am looking forward to the other guys getting theirs into the air. They are bound to be pleased.

Btw, did you determine if the new motor you have is the same as the one I'm using. This little 24g hexTronik I have puts out >20oz thrust @9.*amps on a 9x4.7RS. As I rarely ever go much over 1/2 throttle on any of the sub 10oz 3D planes I have used it on I can usually get away with quite small 3s1p lipos (budget 15c-20c) and still fly in excess of 10min (20+ minutes with the Little Go Bipe). Anyhow, hope you do find a spot of good weather this weekend I know Chi-town in the winter and she can be fickle.

Happy Holidays!
golem
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Old Dec 22, 2006, 08:54 AM
Bernoulli+Newton=Lift
magic612's Avatar
Somewhere south of Chicago, IL
Joined Jan 2006
1,952 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by golem
Me thinks it's time to feel good magic612...BIG allowed! This was a very nice effort for a first public offering. Your dedication to fine tuning it does show through in its flight characteristics.
Well, my first two airfoils (to put it bluntly) sucked. It wasn't until I read this article that I was able to put a good one on this plane:

http://jef.raskincenter.org/published/airfoil.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by golem
Btw, did you determine if the new motor you have is the same as the one I'm using.
Well, based on the picture, it looked like it might be the same, but from what you're saying, I don't think it is. I got mine from "Heads Up R/C" which is on Ebay, and mine is the 2712-12 motor. When I put it on my newly built thrust stand last night, it pulled almost 10 oz of thrust at 5.7 amps with a 10x3.8 prop at 7.4 volts.

Considering that motor weighs the same as the GWS IPS unit, I think I could probably use my 800 mAh battery and STILL have plenty of power to spare with an AUW of perhaps 6 oz. Or, as you do, go slow and easy on the throttle with my 350mAh pack (it's only 10C), which would tip the AUW at all of 5.375 oz. I'll test some other props, but I'm quite sure I can figure out how to pull 5-7 oz of thrust with under 3 amps, and if not, I may just pick up a 500mAh pack tonight. One way or another, I'm sure I'll be able to get it to really perform, it's just a matter of seeing which setup works best.

Gotta love technology!!! Yay for wattmeters, scales, lipos, brushless motors and Depron. Woo-hoo!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by golem
Anyhow, hope you do find a spot of good weather this weekend I know Chi-town in the winter and she can be fickle.
Forecast is calling for low 40's and some clouds, but unfortunately at the moment, winds in the 10-15mph range. That's okay - if I can't fly it, I'll just mess around determining ideal thrust / motor / battery combinations for when the weather does cooperate. And perhaps design something else, too!

Thanks for the feedback. Hope other people enjoy this plane as much as you do.
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Old Dec 24, 2006, 07:00 AM
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one of you guys really needs to post a vid of this thing in action, that will get the builders building!

golem- tell me what do you think of that 24 g motor? I have 2 of them on the way, it'll be another 2+ weeks before I can get home to play with them but I am excited about it!

Mike
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Old Dec 24, 2006, 08:52 AM
Bernoulli+Newton=Lift
magic612's Avatar
Somewhere south of Chicago, IL
Joined Jan 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micob
one of you guys really needs to post a vid of this thing in action, that will get the builders building!
Couple problems for me to get that accomplished: One, the weather has not been very cooperative - I've only had a chance to take it out once since I got it completed (okay, twice - but that time it was WAY too windy and it consisted of about a 10 foot flight!). Second, I only have one way to download video to my computer - that's if I take the video using our digital camera, which has NO zoom function. So I suppose I could take a video courtesy of my wife as camera operator, but it would consist of seeing the plane on takeoff, and a dot until it landed. I'm guessing that won't thrill too many people with it's performance...

Now, if someone knows how I can get my regular VHS-C camcorder to download to my computer without purchasing a $70 piece of equipment, then we may be in business. Until then... I dunno!
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Old Dec 24, 2006, 02:40 PM
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Maryland, USA
Joined Mar 2006
896 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by micob
golem- tell me what do you think of that 24 g motor? I have 2 of them on the way, it'll be another 2+ weeks before I can get home to play with them but I am excited about it!

Mike

Mike I can safely say I believe you will be quite pleased with your choice of motor. The one I am using on the Little Go Bipe has been around the rough side of the block a couple of times having been used on a number of sacrificial foamies. It really is an extremely robust motor. If you had a chance to read my USAF UFO experience you would know that I did pile drive this motor into ground and tree alike on many occasions and she still runs as strong and true as the day I got it!

It has more than enough power to fly 3D birds up to 14oz, sport to 18oz, and Sunday lazy to 26oz. I found it getting hot when static testing but since I've been flying it (most aggressively was in a 7oz Amos Moses) she has always come down cool to the touch. It is a highly cogged motor (be that good or bad) which is why I believe it tends to be a bit louder than the average outrunner but nothing like that of a gearbox.

Anyhow, I initially ran a quick test on the motor using my trusty CSRC "budget" 3s 1250's and noted the following:
no-load - .7a
7x6.0RS - 8,100 - 7.5a = 13oz
8x4.3RS - 8,700 - 7.1a = 18oz
8x6.0RS - 7,200 - 8.4a = 15.2oz
9x4.7RS - ????? - 9.*a = >20oz <- (this stat from vague memory)

I've been flying this motor almost exclusively on hexTronik 460mAh and 620mAh 3s1p batts and a same brand 10a ESC. To me this is the ultimate combo at the moment for what I consider as my disposable Bluecore (Protection Board) fleet. Now I just have to get some of those $4 servos and my frugalness will be complete.

I still love my Castle Creations ESC's and Rx's from BPHobbies along with my CSRC batteries but the items listed above are perfectly suited to their particular application.

Look forward to hearing your experience with the motor and magic612's sweet little bipe, I'm sure you'll be pleased with both!

Cheers,
golem
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Old Dec 24, 2006, 06:31 PM
Bernoulli+Newton=Lift
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Somewhere south of Chicago, IL
Joined Jan 2006
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First video

I call this video, "I suck at flying a 6 oz. plane in 8-10 mph winds..."

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...45#post6606756

Okay, seriously, it was a little windy when I first went out today. I thought I could fly it at the library parking lot right near my house, but as the video shows, the wind was a bit strong. Plus, I didn't want it to go past the 6 foot high fence at the other end of the lot, since the wind was blowing towards it - hence the rather abrupt landing (which broke the landing gear support, but that was just a quick CA job with some glass cloth tape and it was fixed).

Specs of the plane today:

2712-12 brushess motor
8 x 3.8 APC prop
7.4V, 500 mAh Common Sense RC Lipo
AUW - 6.25 oz!!!! (Yes, that's a full 1/4 oz over expected weight, but amazingly still flies just fine with the brushless setup).

Oh, and two thumbs up for my wife who was the camera operator - we used the digital camera, and as expected, the plane gets pretty small pretty darn quick, but she did a nice job of keeping it in the frame.
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Old Dec 24, 2006, 07:27 PM
Bernoulli+Newton=Lift
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A little later in the afternoon

The wind calmed down a little bit later on, and I was impatient (hey, aren't we all?). So I gave it another go, and did a little bit better - though it probably helped that I went over by the high school so I had a lot more room.

Thanks again to the wife for being the camera operator!!!

This is a FUN little plane. Although small wind gusts will knock it around a bit, some of the difficulty I had could simply be due to my inexperience. I'm pretty good with a Slow Stick in 5-10 mph winds, but it also weighs 14 ounces, versus this little one being just over 6. In any case, I don't think I ever had the throttle up above 1/3 of the way - it just TAKES OFF like it can't stand being on the ground.

I'm sure I could make it do much larger loops with practice (the snap loop on this video was a breeze). And inverted flight was FAR easier than I expected - and not only that, I was able to push up and out of inverted with just a bit of extra throttle and with a nudge of the elevator stick forward.

It definitely requires quite a bit of exponential dialed in for a relative beginner like me, to avoid overcontrolling. But DANG it sure is a fun plane to fly, and when a little 1 oz brushless is on it that will pull 7 oz. of static thrust - WOW!

Video file in this link is rather large - 5 MB. And my apologies for the small relative size of the plane in most of it. No zoom function, and I didn't want to get TOO close to me or my wife - to make sure I didn't end up hitting one of us!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...59#post6606899
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Old Dec 24, 2006, 07:39 PM
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Maryland, USA
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Props to the wife! She did do a fine job.

The almost lighter than air craft can get blown around pretty easily, some moreso than others. Now that you've braved the barrier and provided a video I'm looking forward to a fair weather version vid. This design of yours does handle very well in light winds as I flew mine in about 4-8mph breezes/gusts. She floats very gracefully on sport throws with 50%-60% expo. Also, dual rates are my friend. ;-)

Unfortunately it has been way to gusty the last couple of days so I've been grounded giving me time to build another USAF UFO and 4-S Bipe. I might also add that I do believe the Little Go Bipe would be a good candidate for indoors if built light.

*EDIT* Too funny, I wrote this as you were writing about your second outing. Looks like we were thinking the same things. *EDIT*

Cheers,
golem
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Old Dec 26, 2006, 10:11 AM
JAM
MaxAmps CMO
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Nine Mile Falls, WA
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I'm adding it to the list...thanks Magic

Jason
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Old Jan 04, 2007, 04:48 PM
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Maryland, USA
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Have to let you guys know that I've still been flying this little gem on a regular basis, actually, just got back. Remember, I did say the flight gear was staying put in this one! Just ordered a couple more ESC's, RX's, etc in an effort to keep it so. ;-)

What really amazes me about this plane is the attention it garners. The park I fly at gets its fair share of people-traffic in the way of walkers, bikers, and just plain relaxers. More than for any other plane I've flown there I have people stop to watch it and actually asking me to fly it CLOSER to them! Later they approach and remark at how quiet, docile, and cute it is in the air. There is definitely NO intimidation factor when flown that way. I do have to admit though that I can startle them if I decide to punch it with 2/3-3/4 throttle and shoot straight up like an Estes rocket!

This has proven to be such a nice flying little plane on low throws that I rarely (if ever) switch to high rates. She surely begs to be flown low and slow. 75% of the time my wheels are being rotated by the grass and weeds that are just being skimming over. That said, the one 3D maneuver it does excel in is the sedate harrier. Just the right amount of throttle (less than 1/3) along with full-up elevator and she will hang and meander all around the field at about 45-60 degrees nose high using only tiny bits of rudder.

The only changes I've made since the first flights has been to add another strut between the fuse and upper wing. This served two purposes; One was too stop forward and aft movement of the upper wing which introduced twist in the lower, second was it helped eliminate entirely any additional span-wise flex. I can also make note that since I do most of my battery replacement and other adjustments while I have the plane inverted and on the ground/table the strut also acts as a support for the fuselage. Picture of the strut can be seen in the photo below.

Looking forward to a long-life FFF here!

Cheers,
golem
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