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Old Dec 01, 2006, 01:19 AM
Homo Modelicus
BaZsiX's Avatar
Hungary
Joined Jan 2005
686 Posts
Build Log
Nieuport IV for IPS (designed by Peter Rake)

Hi all,

two days ago has arrived the laser cutted parts (Manzano Laser). Yesterday I have collected a lot of information, old photos, 3D views about this model. Today or on the weekend I will start the building. The goal is the japanese version of the Nieuport IV. It was a two seater and armed.


I have got the whole electronics except the IPS engine. Where can I find the cheapest and best IPS motor for this plane? I couldn't buy this in my country, so I have to order one. I will use small 4.3g servos - maybe three, and try the wing warping - a two cell 7.4V 700mAh Lipo battery and a small indoor receiver (200-300m max range, I think this will be enough).

It will help me to realize the authentic controlling:


And the military version of the plane (3D draw):


to be continued...

Balázs
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Old Dec 01, 2006, 04:08 AM
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Norfolk, England
Joined Sep 2001
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Balazs,
Do I take it you are doing the proto build on this one mate? If so, large, high resolution photos are the order of the day.
Either way, I'll be interested to see how your wing warping works out, but have my doubts about a 4.3 gram servo being capable of doing the job. They aren't the most powerful servo around.
With just two cells, you may need to watch what gear ratio you get, there's only clearance for a 6" prop. I would have expected 3 cells with anything but the lowest ratios. I know the plan shows 2, but there is enough room for 3. No doubt Vintage will put us right on that point.

Pete
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Old Dec 01, 2006, 04:16 AM
Light and floaty does it
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Probably wants to be the same setup as Pat's Duigan, I imagine.
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Old Dec 01, 2006, 04:55 AM
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East Anglia, UK
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Yup...the lowest ratio IPS - 3.5:1 - is 7x6 on 2s LIPO.

you might try Aircraft world..www.aircraft-world.com

Ships anywhere cheap.

However they don't do the RXC stuff anymore..Hmm. BUT they do the hotter RLC motor, which should work very well indeed on 2s...never tried one..6x5.5 and 4.1 box works..now..

So..thats one possible. RLC motor, and LPS 4:1 gearbox. I think that fits the same stick mount as the IPS gearbox.

Otherwise a different supplier might net you an RLC motor in a S1 IPS gearbox.

Or 3s LIPO and DX2 (RXC) motor in 4:1 S1 gearbox.

Hmm. It looks like the ONLY way to get low ratios is to get the LPS gearbox..

I think it fits the same though..

So..LPS 4:1 box, and either 3s LIPO and the standard DX motor, or RLC motor on 2s LIPO.

If you run into supply probs, PM me..they are just about available in the UK..

http://www.jperkinsdistribution.co.u...t%20items#L009
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Old Dec 01, 2006, 06:57 AM
edi
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Pete is absolutely right about the 4.3 gram servo. The 9g servo I used on my AerodromeRC Morane L (designed originally by Pete) was moaning under the load (albeit with a way thicker wing). So make the wing nice and wobbly, you can easily do that because you'll have functional rigging to take most of the stress. On my (now retired) wing-warping biplane (an adapted GWS stick) I was using one servo for each panel, a 6g servo and a 9g servo. The 9g servo took the load w.o. problems and so did the 6g servo, although you could here it complain loudly So I'd say take a nice and sturdy 9g servo for the job. Those additional 5g won't kill the flying performance. I'd prefer using the upper cables for pulling the wing-tips up only to avoid adversive yaw and reduce stress on the servo. But here you want just as much throw as you can get for decent handling: Keep in mind that a standard aileron does not only change the incidence of its part of the wing by a few degrees, it also changes the airfoil's characteristics so it would produce downforce instead of lift even at zero incidence. With wing-warping, you don't change the airfoil, but *only* the angle of incidence, so you need more throw than you'd give to an aileron to get the same response. If you don't, you'll end up with wing-warping where you can lean on the stick and count to three until the plane starts banking ever so slightly.

You can check out my thread on wing-warping on Kurt's forum: http://www.bengco.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/...num=1147469311
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Old Dec 02, 2006, 07:21 AM
Homo Modelicus
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Hungary
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686 Posts
Hi all,

thank you very much for your fast and usefull answers.

Pete,

if she is a prototype, yes you are right, I have started the building of the Nieuport IV proto. I have search stuffs on the internet for this plane and I have found these links (there were more, but I think these are usefull):

http://mars.ark.com/~mdf/N_6.html

http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/nieuport.html

http://www.ejercitodelaire.mde.es/we...2570D7004653D7

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Nieuport_IVG.jpg

http://www.avrosys.nu/aircraft/Flygkomp/01_M1_M2.htm

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Nieuport_IVG_1912.jpg

http://www.luft46.com/Planet/098.html

http://www.geocities.com/bulgarian_a...ieuport4BG.htm

http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Mar...nch/index.html

http://mars.ark.com/~mdf/N_4d.html

http://www.kwmairpl.com.ph/KWPlanesD...tCodeQ=RC-22FR

http://www.earlyaviator.com/archive/...ann.Rheims.jpg

http://www.earlyaviator.com/archive/...anet_nieup.jpg

Yes maybe the small servo is not enough to wrap the wing. I will use Hitec HS-50 therefore. I have got a two cell Kokam 720mAh Lipo battery in stock. I'm thinking about the 3 cells.

W.I.P,

thanks, I will check that thread.

Vintage,

I know that you will answer soon and gave the answer for my question. Thanks! Pete and You said that the 3 cells are better so maybe I will try that setup too. But I can't use LPS engine because it doesn't fits the same stick mount. So I have to use only IPS and I have got an IPS DX2. I have built that into my Caudron. I will remove from that plane. So first I will try with 2cells Lipo and after I will try with three.

Edi,

thank you for the help about the wing warping. I have checked that link too. As I wrote I will use Hitec 9g servo to wrap the wing. Maybe it will work. I would like to build the control mechanism as authentic as I can.

I have to order spoken wheels from SAMS. I hope he has got spoken wheels for this model.

And here are the first photos:
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Old Dec 02, 2006, 07:56 AM
No Wind
65Chevelle's Avatar
Long Island
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BaZsiX: This is a laser cut short kit from Manzano? How'd you swing that without a proto being built yet? Pretty cool. I'll be watching this one closely. Love this plane. Hope to finish up my IPS Nieuport Mono soon.
Keep the updates coming.
Chris
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Old Dec 02, 2006, 08:25 AM
Homo Modelicus
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Hungary
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Chris,

I have checked your Nieuport thread before I have start my building. I want to know what electronics did you used. That is a great plane and your one is beautiful too! I have built the bigger version of that, and I think that is my stablest (or most stable???) plane (when no wind). I can fly slow, fast and make loops immelmans (WWI) as many as I want. The landing and the take off easy. But when I have got cross wind during the landing...

Yes that are laser cutted parts. I was lazy and I haven't got enough time to cut them out myself. And the laser cut parts are more accurate then when I cut it out I do not understand this perfectly: "How'd you swing that...". As I understood that sentence: I have built the bigger Nieuport and a lot of Pete designed plane. So I have got enough practice (I think) and I'm using my imagination and I'm improvise. But your small Nieuport is a prototype too, am I right?

Balázs
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Old Dec 02, 2006, 08:48 AM
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Old Dec 02, 2006, 09:36 AM
Homo Modelicus
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Jimmyray,

so this: "How'd you swing that..." mean How could you subscribe...?

If yes, Chris I have found the japanese Nieuport during the building of my Nieuport Mono. Pete saw too, and after few months when he start the designing of the small IPS plane he draw the model. (As I know). He started a thread "Testing the water" and put there a question: who want to build this model? And I have reported myself (is this good?).

Pls when I made some big mistake during my answers report me.

Balázs
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Old Dec 02, 2006, 10:10 AM
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Subscribe puts me on the e-mail list, so I receive an e-mail alert every time there is a new response to this thread. The word subscribe is meaningless to the system, it just notes that I posted to the forum, and automatically subscribes me to it. I could have written "note" or "great work" or "very interesting". Anything I post will subscribe me. For example, I just recieved the following e-mail:
Hello jimmyray,

BaZsiX has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - Build Log - Nieuport IV for IPS (designed by Peter Rake) - in the Scale Electric Planes forum of RC Groups.

This thread is located at:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0&goto=newpost

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
Jimmyray,

so this: "How'd you swing that..." mean How could you subscribe...?
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Old Dec 02, 2006, 10:18 AM
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Norfolk, England
Joined Sep 2001
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Baslazs,
'How'd you swing that' meand how did you manage that. What Chris meant is how come you're building from a laser cut kit while everyone else is cutting bits.
Simple answer to that one Chris, Balazs paid for the kit. I had no idea he was getting one cut and didn't persuade Charlie to supply it.

Pete
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Old Dec 02, 2006, 11:05 AM
Homo Modelicus
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Hungary
Joined Jan 2005
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Jimmyray,

I have misunderstanded you. Its a good idea when anybody want only to following a thread. I will use this method.

Yes Pete is right. But I do not understand your last sentence :"I had no idea he was getting one cut and didn't persuade Charlie to supply it.
". I understand the words, but the whole..., not.

Pete,

I have made a little modification of the original plan. I have cut out the inside of the F1 part. If I can I would like to make a dummy engine. But first I have to put inside the engine. I have used your building technics. Build two box first. I think the one of the longest work will be the sanding of the cabane with windscreen from wood. You didn't draw that, but I think I will make a same fuse frame to the end of the first box what you used in your big mono. That was light and strong. And I have reinforced the big mono with small triangle after the last front box frame and between the lover and upper longeron. I hope you understand me (I will take a photo). After a hard landing the four longeron has broken... (on my Be2c too) I have repaired and the result is perfect. You have used this method on your Fokker DVII. I hope the rear box will not warp or twist before I joined the two box.

Balázs
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Old Dec 02, 2006, 11:54 AM
Homo Modelicus
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I have put inside the engine and the battery. Both fits perfect. What can I say? I'm happy I have to make a good stick for the motor... Without it I could not set the correct trust. And there is enough space for a dummy engine.
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Old Dec 02, 2006, 12:11 PM
No Wind
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Long Island
Joined Jul 2006
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BaZsiX: Sorry for the phrasing I used. Pete is right, I was wondering how you got laser cut parts as I was under the impression that Pete's IPS designs would not be available as laser cut short kits. Pretty cool.
Yes, I have followed and reviewed your Mono build many, many times. I will also be following this thread as I have the plans to it, just don't have the time to build it.
For my mono, I have installed the following electronics:
-GWS IPS A, w/ GWS 9x7 prop
- blue bird BMS-303 micro servos
- blue arrow 5 amp ESC
- 2 cell lipo
- blue bird BMR 4 ch. receiver

Chris
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