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Old Nov 19, 2006, 08:49 AM
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What will 'rolling back' big oil tax breaks do?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...11-19-03-54-44

Incoming House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, in an outline of priorities over the first 100 hours of the next Congress in January, promises to begin a move toward greater energy independence "by rolling back the multibillion dollar subsidies for Big Oil."

...

Topping the list for repeal are:

-Tax breaks for refinery expansion and for geological studies to help oil exploration.

-A measure passed two years ago primarily to promote domestic manufacturing. It allows oil companies to take a tax credit if they chose to drill in this country instead of going abroad.

...

Other prime targets of House and Senate Democrats include:

-Alleged price gouging. Proposals to create a federal price gouging law for gasoline and other fuels probably will move quickly.

-More incentives and mandates to expand the use of ethanol and biodiesel as a substitute for gasoline. Requiring oil companies to phase in retail pumps that deliver fuel that is 85 percent ethanol.

-Requiring power companies to produce a percentage of their electricity from renewable energy sources such as wind and solar power. Such a measure is a priority of Sen. Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., incoming chairman of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee.

-Extending energy efficiency tax credits approved by Congress last year. Most are scheduled to expire at the end of next year.

-Expanding a tax break for buyers of gas-electric hybrid cars and offering more incentives for automakers to build greater numbers of the vehicles.

-------------

Perhaps my memory has failed me, but haven't there been quite a few investigations into 'price gouging'? And weren't the results each time that no price gouging was occuring?

And how is the above going to reduce prices? It would seem to me it would do just the opposite.
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Old Nov 19, 2006, 09:03 AM
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badaltitude's Avatar
kentucky
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Quote:
Perhaps my memory has failed me, but haven't there been quite a few investigations into 'price gouging'? And weren't the results each time that no price gouging was occuring?
Funny....what I remember is the republican majority refusing to allow a gaggle of oil executives to be placed under oath when appearing before congress.

Some 'investigation'.
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Old Nov 19, 2006, 11:00 AM
Reduce the drama...
rick.benjamin's Avatar
USA, OR, Damascus
Joined Apr 2004
4,044 Posts
Recall every year or so when voting, road pothole repair measures?
Says will only cost couple cents per gallon.
In due course, cost of gas goes up.
Read somewhere that as much as 2/3 price at pump is for taxes.
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Old Nov 19, 2006, 11:42 AM
Government is a fearful master
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United States, TX, Farwell
Joined Feb 2001
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one of the reasons there are shortages in the gasoline and fuels markets is the need for more refineries. Government and the public at large have been against construction of newer more efficient refineries. Government puts hard restrictions on the construction aspect which make already expensive processes ultra expensive. The public usually wants refineries built anywhere but near where we live. Constant lawsuits to prevent construction of refineries through out the country results in insuficient refining capacity and higher prices.
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Old Nov 19, 2006, 11:44 AM
jollyroger
Central Lake, Mi.
Joined Nov 2002
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Ahh, yes and with the 40+billion in profit Exxon makes, I guess they really need those massive"Free Lunch"tax breaks. B.S!
Tax approximately 75% of their profits and turn them over to new infrastrucure and education as well as alternative energy.
They should be taxed to the level where they cannot buy off our elected reps!
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Old Nov 19, 2006, 11:46 AM
Go get them Meg!
lrsudog's Avatar
Cabin 21...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbo

And how is the above going to reduce prices? It would seem to me it would do just the opposite.
Is the prime goal of the Government reducing gas prices?

It is ridiculous to offer tax credits to companies that are enjoying record profits and don't need government subsidies to continue to do so.

OTOH, it is smart to encourage investment in alternative technologies that can reduce the dependence on petrochemicals.
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Old Nov 19, 2006, 12:10 PM
Alarm Bells Continuing!
Big Foot 48's Avatar
Arizona
Joined Oct 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Z
Ahh, yes and with the 40+billion in profit Exxon makes, I guess they really need those massive"Free Lunch"tax breaks. B.S!
Tax approximately 75% of their profits and turn them over to new infrastrucure and education as well as alternative energy.
They should be taxed to the level where they cannot buy off our elected reps!
And how to you propose they then pay for new refineries, gas stations, alternative fuel pumps, exploration and production?

Your idea would kill the Golden Motoring Goose, besides, as proved time and time again, more spending on education doesn't result in a better educated student. Aren't 4,000 employees in the Dept of Education enough?

Moreover, these so-called tax breaks are chicken feed: "Over 10 years, the production tax credit saves oil companies $5 billion and the refinery measure and exploration credit a total of about $1.4 billion, according to Congressional Budget Office estimates." That won't even pay for a days worth of Congressional pork!
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Old Nov 19, 2006, 12:15 PM
Go get them Meg!
lrsudog's Avatar
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That is Congressional pork.
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Old Nov 19, 2006, 12:21 PM
Build/Fly/Crash/Repeat
United States, HI, Kapalua
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Foot 48
And how to you propose they then pay for new refineries, gas stations, alternative fuel pumps, exploration and production?
Just like every other business on the planet - they build those costs into the prices they charge. It's part of the cost of doing business. As you well know.
Quote:
Your idea would kill the Golden Motoring Goose
Sure it would.
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Old Nov 19, 2006, 12:37 PM
Alarm Bells Continuing!
Big Foot 48's Avatar
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Originally Posted by CoastalFlyer
Just like every other business on the planet - they build those costs into the prices they charge. It's part of the cost of doing business.
So during high global oil prices, they make lots of money and the government takes it away for Midnight Basketball, and when they need a new refinery they charge us even more for gasoline.

Doesn't sound very attractive to me.
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Old Nov 19, 2006, 12:37 PM
Go get them Meg!
lrsudog's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoastalFlyer
Just like every other business on the planet - they build those costs into the prices they charge. It's part of the cost of doing business. As you well know.
Sure it would.

He was responding specifically to Z's contention that a 75% tax on profits should occur. A contention that is based, apparently, on Z's disdain for oil companies.

Unless he is also proposing a 75% tax on every company's profits.
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Old Nov 19, 2006, 02:26 PM
Build/Fly/Crash/Repeat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Dog
He was responding specifically to Z's contention that a 75% tax on profits should occur. A contention that is based, apparently, on Z's disdain for oil companies.
You're right - my bad.

I've gotten so tired of reading absurd posts I seem to just automatically ignore them - hence, I completely missed Z's "idea".
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Old Nov 19, 2006, 02:46 PM
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Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
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God, a couple steps in the right direction motived by god knows what, then a boatload of bass ackwards market distortions and manipulations to screw up the economics of energy in new ways.

Quote:
-Tax breaks for refinery expansion and for geological studies to help oil exploration.
I agree with her, get rid of them. Actual subsidies should not exist.

Quote:
-A measure passed two years ago primarily to promote domestic manufacturing. It allows oil companies to take a tax credit if they chose to drill in this country instead of going abroad.
Get rid of this one too.

...
Quote:
Other prime targets of House and Senate Democrats include:

-Alleged price gouging. Proposals to create a federal price gouging law for gasoline and other fuels probably will move quickly.
Couldn't be a worse idea. If you actually think congress can repeal supply and demand, this is the bogus law for you.

Quote:
-More incentives and mandates to expand the use of ethanol and biodiesel as a substitute for gasoline. Requiring oil companies to phase in retail pumps that deliver fuel that is 85 percent ethanol.
Good idea. Raise the actual price of the very product you are trying to encourage by providing hidden payments still paid by the consumer. Political payback for corn states. Additionally, raise the price of food for the poor...and then argue to subsidize them, too, making the actual price of the fuels higher many ways, *all* paid in aggregate by the taxpayer. we have subsidy of the fuel itself raising it's actual cost, the subsidy of the people for who higher corn prices mean higher food costs, and the higher food costs consumers will pay directly.

Quote:
-Requiring power companies to produce a percentage of their electricity from renewable energy sources such as wind and solar power. Such a measure is a priority of Sen. Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., incoming chairman of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee.
The market is perfectly capable of aquiring solar and wind power on it's own when costs to do so are competitive. Neither Bingaman, Pelosi, or the entire body of congress nor it's laws are needed for power companies to notice if solar becomes as cheap as the usual generating methods. That's the beauty of markets... they function without politicians telling the parties involved they 'need' to spend money. Cpngress again at work raising your prices.

Quote:
-Extending energy efficiency tax credits approved by Congress last year. Most are scheduled to expire at the end of next year.
The market is capable of deciding wether it is efficient to increase efficiency all on it's own.

Quote:
-Expanding a tax break for buyers of gas-electric hybrid cars and offering more incentives for automakers to build greater numbers of the vehicles.
The only incentive needed for automakers to build in greater numbers is people deciding to buy them for their own reasons.

Quote:
Perhaps my memory has failed me, but haven't there been quite a few investigations into 'price gouging'? And weren't the results each time that no price gouging was occuring?
yup. market pricing drives those who wish to direct prices politically, nuts.

Quote:
And how is the above going to reduce prices? It would seem to me it would do just the opposite.
yup.
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Old Nov 19, 2006, 02:53 PM
Who, ME?
dll932's Avatar
Euclid Ohio
Joined May 2005
306 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Z
Ahh, yes and with the 40+billion in profit Exxon makes, I guess they really need those massive"Free Lunch"tax breaks. B.S!
Tax approximately 75% of their profits and turn them over to new infrastrucure and education as well as alternative energy.
They should be taxed to the level where they cannot buy off our elected reps!
It's called socialism for the rich.
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Old Nov 19, 2006, 02:58 PM
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MtnGoat's Avatar
Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Z
Ahh, yes and with the 40+billion in profit Exxon makes, I guess they really need those massive"Free Lunch"tax breaks. B.S!
Tax approximately 75% of their profits and turn them over to new infrastrucure and education as well as alternative energy.
They should be taxed to the level where they cannot buy off our elected reps!
From the ideas presented, that should also apply to corn growers, alcohol refiners, solar and wind energy companies....
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