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Old Apr 08, 2007, 04:33 PM
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How about a deadband on each channel? It seams that my controler is real twitchy and when i go to calibrate the calibration bars are really twitchy. They flutter around in the center.

If there was a deadband there would be no input control untill you went past this little dead band window. Anyone understand what im talking about?

Its really common on this style of controler that uses control pots. Only 1 game ive ever seen with a deadband window that was revolt R/C car game. You could adjust how large the deadband window is.
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Old Apr 08, 2007, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinity005
Is there a background/landscape with a square box so we can practice in/around the box?
I am planning a scenery with landing box and some obstacles for precision hover practice.

Stefan
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Old Apr 08, 2007, 05:11 PM
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Water environments for seaplanes and hydrofoams. Although I think skirtz already said he was going to make one for the hydro I asked helo to make.
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Old Apr 09, 2007, 12:16 AM
BeeZaur 480
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A living room scene and you can fly under the coffee table or somthing. Fly threw a window between the kitchen and living room. Maybe it could be a living room on a gribs episode of some one famous maybe the newlyweds living room?

The scene with water would be cool if it was a backyard pool or somthing. Fly under lawnchairs, under a table unmbrella maybe.


Add the #52 or the 5#6 palm helis
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Old Apr 09, 2007, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowerR64
How about a deadband on each channel? It seams that my controler is real twitchy and when i go to calibrate the calibration bars are really twitchy. They flutter around in the center.

If there was a deadband there would be no input control untill you went past this little dead band window. Anyone understand what im talking about?
Deadband *would* be handy, I have the problem with a logitech analogue joystick

Kim
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Old Apr 09, 2007, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by cozzykim
Deadband *would* be handy, I have the problem with a logitech analogue joystick

Kim
Kim and Bower, the problem is really one of quality with the controller or dirty pots, and probably not something that you really want to work around with the sim because it could teach in appropriate control.

What I mean is that if you had a deadband then you have to move the control further before you get a reaction. If you tried the same amount of movement with an RC transmitter you would be over controlling the model. That is one reason why it is a good idea to use your actual transmitter with the simulator or at least a real transmitter since they all (ish) provide the same movement for the same control input (forgetting mixes, end point controls etc).

The most real life like way of getting over that would be to apply exponential to soften the centre noise.

I too get a little dithering on the control setup screen but don't notice it when flying, even something twitchy like the 450SE. If it is so bad that it is affecting flying I'd replace the controller or if it is a real transmitter have it serviced.
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Old Apr 09, 2007, 04:51 PM
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Its the design of the controlers. I have 3 eflite controlers, and ive tried them all and they alll have this little dithering problem. I think its the conversion from analog to digital or somthing. Ive been playing racing games on the computer since the late 90s nascar, nascar 2 etc. etc the wheel controlers for these programs use the same type of control pot and they do the same thing. I agree that some are better then others, some convert the analog to digital before it goes into the PC and those were the best. They used some type of compression program or somthign to smooth out the little flutters in the controls.

Why is it that when i use my controler on the sim, the model in the sim reacts to this little flutter in my controler, but my real heli doesnt do that? what is the difference? why is there a difference? when i use the controler for my CX it doesnt move all jerky like that.

It just seems this part of all sims gets over looked. They focus on graphics, physics, adjustments and all sorts of other things but forget about the control input and settings to improve that.
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Old Apr 09, 2007, 08:01 PM
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The deadband is usefull when the control unit has poor centering. This is when the controls, when released will return different values around stick neutral point. This makes for poorly flying models because they can't be trimmed. The poor pots spikes are different animal alltogeather, because usually, they are shor lived and with big amplitude - the signals can stray for up to 1/3 of the total signal strength for fraction of a second. The deadband filtering can't fix this problem. I suggest that you select and assign slower servo to the models, instead using direct instant servo selection. The servo reacts slower to peaks and will even out noisy pot signals (up to a point). The same happens with a real servo - because the pot noise is short lived,the servo arm does not have the time to move before the pot spike signal is gone, or another pot spike signal with opposite amplitude follows.

To make the long story short, in case of pot noise, select and assign slower servos and in most case this will work well. I would like to note that the main focus for me as ClearView developer is the quality of the flight simulation and I am not distracted by "pretty graphics" (while CV is not bad in that department)

Stefan
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Old Apr 10, 2007, 12:11 AM
BeeZaur 480
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I wasnt implying that you did but i do see alot of other sims that dont give much options past calibration. Like i said i have 6 different wheels that all use control pots like the these controlers and they all have this similar problem.

If you take a second and look at the flutter in the calibration, no one would even be giving this type of input. Its fast, and repetitive

Maybe i can do somthing different im not aware of? lower the microphoe level? add more resistors?

The option of a slower servo makes alot of sence, im gona try that. The thing about getting a better controler would be nice but i dont have that option now, if all 3 of mine do it then im not the only one with this probem

It was just a sugestion though, if it cant be fixed it cant be fixed, its a wishlist.
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Old Apr 10, 2007, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skirtz
The deadband is usefull when the control unit has poor centering. This is when the controls, when released will return different values around stick neutral point. This makes for poorly flying models because they can't be trimmed.
Thanks Stefan, this is the reason I asked for a little bit of deadband if possible, because it makes it difficult to trim the models for stable flight

I'm fully aware of the issues with dirty pots causing "spikes" as well but I don't have this problem with the Logitech joystick or with my RD6000, although the cheap RTF transmitters seem to be prone to it.

Regards

Kim
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Old Apr 10, 2007, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cozzykim
Thanks Stefan, this is the reason I asked for a little bit of deadband if possible, because it makes it difficult to trim the models for stable flight

I'm fully aware of the issues with dirty pots causing "spikes" as well but I don't have this problem with the Logitech joystick or with my RD6000, although the cheap RTF transmitters seem to be prone to it.

Regards

Kim
Some time ago, I implemented automatic deadband to ADC controller (E-Sky USB units) because the earlier units had very poor centering. I received a number of complaints and requests to remove the deadband, because people perceived it as robbing the Tx unit of resolution (which it does). After testing some current E-Sky units which have vastly improved centering and resolution I removed the built in deadband. Now the issue is: - Do I need to add custom deadband settings? My concern is it will overload the Controller Setup screen, and some people will be confused or overwhelmed. I may add it as editable parameters in controller.txt file for advanced users who are wiling to use text editor and know what deadband is.

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com
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Old Apr 10, 2007, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skirtz
Some time ago, I implemented automatic deadband to ADC controller (E-Sky USB units) because the earlier units had very poor centering. I received a number of complaints and requests to remove the deadband, because people perceived it as robbing the Tx unit of resolution (which it does).
You can never please everyone heh heh

Quote:
Originally Posted by skirtz
After testing some current E-Sky units which have vastly improved centering and resolution I removed the built in deadband. Now the issue is: - Do I need to add custom deadband settings? My concern is it will overload the Controller Setup screen, and some people will be confused or overwhelmed. I may add it as editable parameters in controller.txt file for advanced users who are wiling to use text editor and know what deadband is.

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com
A couple of commented lines (to add or remove the deadband) in the .txt file would suit me fine thanks.
BTW this is in no way critical IMO, just a "wishlist" request in the spirit of the thread

Regards

Kim
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Old Apr 11, 2007, 08:35 PM
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Can anyone help me in setting up my controller to control the rudder on the right stick. It currently is being controlled on the left stick and that is not how my actual model is. I want my right stick to control the rudder and elevator and the left stick to control the throttle like on my sky fly.

I'm sure it is easy. I am just having problems with it. Thanks for your help!
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Old Apr 11, 2007, 08:45 PM
BeeZaur 480
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Im sorry, i didnt mean to start a flame war it wasnt my intention but i dont feel like spending $200. for a sim that i feel will just have the same problems. Ive used knife edge software before and i know that it will have the same kind of cheap pots as the controler i have. Im not that advanced yet so i dont have a $1000. controler to use. The whole reason why im using an RCA cable spliced into my computer threw propo is because i have a budget. I understand im using a budget radio woth noise and such but IMO this is realistic. This is the real controler i will be using when i learn to fly.

Maybe it can be an option? maybe a seperate download for those who feel they need it? I just want a little bit because mine flutters just a little, with the CP, and other CP helis its not that bad but anything more advanced like a 500 size heli and man my controler is all over the place. I can see it in the model also.

Ive tried the slower servos, that was a good idea by the way. I chose the .36 second servo, isnt this the slowest there is? or is there a slower servo rate? The higher the number the slower it is right?
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Old Apr 12, 2007, 03:11 PM
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Markarch, I'm assuming that you are using normal mode 2 where it would normally be elevator and primary turn control on the right stick with throttle and secondary control on the left stick.

Assuming that, I am also assuming you are talking about a 3 channel model.

Given all that, unfortunately ClearView doesn't have the ability you are looking for on a per model basis. You can of course remap the controls in the setup but this would apply to all models but it is one way around it.

Perhaps one to add to the wishlist. The ability to assign rudder as primary turn control on a per model basis.
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