I need to charge A123's now - what should I buy?

Jam Rectified · Nov 18, 2006, 06:05 AM

Sorry - I know its another A123 Cells thread and I know that everything is pretty fluid with these at the moment but I have a specific question:
I have 4 x 10S 123cell packs (well, they are on the way) and the only charger I have currently is a cellpro 4S. I have got about $200 with which to buy somethig to charge these cells...now I know that I can use something like an Astro109, TP1010C set to 9S and achieve a slight overcharge which isn't a problem for these cells. Or I could get the TME extrema charger, but am I right in believing that the current is limitted to 5ish Amps for a 10S pack. Are there any solutions out there for charging 10S packs at a higher current (10Amps ideally). My budget is quite flexible and maybe I should get 2 chargers that will charge at 5 amps instead of one that goes at 5 amps as it is going to take me the same amount of time to charge the 4 packs right?
Any suggestions welcome?
Thanks
Jam R

armengol · Nov 18, 2006, 07:05 AM

There are (many) possibilities, all seen on other threads btw, but almost every charger able to go up to 9s will be able to do 2C charging.
On the other side, there are very few ones able to go up over 5A at 9s, and thei start at $200+.
Is one of the few I hav'nt had, but Astro109 seems to have a nice record there, and two of them to charge as high as they are able with 9s can be your best bet.
Regards
Josep

Jam Rectified · Nov 18, 2006, 07:29 AM

Hi Josep,
Thanks for the reply...I did some more research and I can get 2 109s for just a little bit more than the 1010C....could be the best way to go at the moment...any other suggestions?
Thanks
Jam R

bjpaul · Nov 18, 2006, 07:39 AM

You may be able to find a good controllable power supply that will handle the voltage and amps you want. It won't be cheap, and it will be "manual" in that you will control the volts and amps, but in reality that's what we are doing now when we use an Astro109.

For big bucks there are programmable power supplies that will do a CC/CV charge routine. Seen some that will do 1000 watts.

Brad

RD Blakeslee · Nov 18, 2006, 08:19 AM

I'm with Brad. E.g:
http://radios4you.com/powersupplies.html

These will do any chemistry that can be charged CC/CV.

IMO, use on A123s with the LBA10 balancer, or the like; there seems to be some variability in these cells, at least as found on eBay.

- RD

Jam Rectified · Nov 18, 2006, 08:32 AM

Thanks guys Gonna ask a really daft question now and show how little I know about electronics, but how would I go about charging a 10S a123 pack with one of these power supplies. Apart from knowing that I will have to sit there keeping an eye on it, what would I tell it to do?
Sorry for the dumb ass question but remember, there are no silly questions, only silly answers....please educate me.
Thanks
Jam R

RD Blakeslee · Nov 18, 2006, 09:00 AM

Jam,

The power supplies I've referenced that can put out enough amperage to charge A123s in a reasonable length of time only go up to 30 volts, so they won't do 10s 123s. Sorry.

But I would be happy to outline the proceedure for using one, if you're still interested.

- RD

Jam Rectified · Nov 18, 2006, 09:24 AM

Hi RD,

Yeah, when I looked I thought that I need 36volts for a 10S A123 but they only go up to 30.....maybe it would be simplest to get a couple of Astros but if you could outline the manual process if I did manage to find a suitable power supply that would be very much appreciated. I understand by lack of knowledge on these things and would like to learn.
Thanks
Jam R

Gene Bond · Nov 18, 2006, 10:10 AM

Basically, you set the power supply for the finish voltage (36v), and then set the current limit for the max you want to charge at (10a)...

It will put out 10a, in the CC mode, until the voltage reaches the set level, and the current will taper to maintain the set level... Simple and easy.

The balancer is a must, IMO. These cells don't seem to be in great shape when we get them, and from reports, seem to get better (or die early) as we cycle them a few times.

I'm sure there's a 500w power supply available (50v/10a) but it's going to be expensive.

It might be cheaper to look at using 2 5s packs and parallel charge them like from 2 30v/10a supplies? (each with a balancer)

Jam Rectified · Nov 18, 2006, 10:27 AM

Hi,
Thanks for the response. Unfortunately I am going to be flying a 10S 2P setup of the 123s and I am gonna make 4 10S packs and I don't really want to split them into 5S's....So is the best option to just get a couple of 109s and charge them as 9S Lipos? Seems that you can get the 109 for around $110, what amps to they supply when set to 9S Lipo?
Thanks
Jam R

everydayflyer · Nov 18, 2006, 10:47 AM

An AF-109 is approx. 90 watts max. so approx. 2.5A for a 10 cell (36V) battery.

I charge my A123 3S at 8.25A and a 4S at 6.5A and it is close to maxed out.

Charles

jamin · Nov 18, 2006, 11:07 AM

Some people are using a 12v lead battery and this device:
http://slkelectronics.com/lipodapter/index.htm

There is some info around post #130
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...23#post6373482

Jam Rectified · Nov 18, 2006, 11:27 AM

OK - I found an 800w power supply that is rated at 36volt, 11.1 Amp - would that be much use to me? I think tha 123s are only rated upto 10Amp max but is there something I could do to use this supply?
Thank
Jam R
P.S. I said earlierthat I am no electronics whizz....

Hugeone · Nov 18, 2006, 11:40 AM

If you are no electronic wizz, maybe it'll be wiser not to use a power supply to charge your battery, IMHO.

-Hugo

Jam Rectified · Nov 18, 2006, 11:44 AM

Hi Hugo - thanks - I see your point - but I do want to learn and I am not a total numpty, its just not something I have ever had the time to learn much about - but now I have a reason to......

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Nov 18, 2006, 06:05 AM	#1
Jam Rectified Todays a good day to fly Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 973	I need to charge A123's now - what should I buy? Sorry - I know its another A123 Cells thread and I know that everything is pretty fluid with these at the moment but I have a specific question: I have 4 x 10S 123cell packs (well, they are on the way) and the only charger I have currently is a cellpro 4S. I have got about $200 with which to buy somethig to charge these cells...now I know that I can use something like an Astro109, TP1010C set to 9S and achieve a slight overcharge which isn't a problem for these cells. Or I could get the TME extrema charger, but am I right in believing that the current is limitted to 5ish Amps for a 10S pack. Are there any solutions out there for charging 10S packs at a higher current (10Amps ideally). My budget is quite flexible and maybe I should get 2 chargers that will charge at 5 amps instead of one that goes at 5 amps as it is going to take me the same amount of time to charge the 4 packs right? Any suggestions welcome? Thanks Jam R

Nov 18, 2006, 07:05 AM	#2
armengol Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Madrid (Spain) Posts: 468	There are (many) possibilities, all seen on other threads btw, but almost every charger able to go up to 9s will be able to do 2C charging. On the other side, there are very few ones able to go up over 5A at 9s, and thei start at $200+. Is one of the few I hav'nt had, but Astro109 seems to have a nice record there, and two of them to charge as high as they are able with 9s can be your best bet. Regards Josep

Nov 18, 2006, 07:29 AM	#3
Jam Rectified Todays a good day to fly Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 973	Hi Josep, Thanks for the reply...I did some more research and I can get 2 109s for just a little bit more than the 1010C....could be the best way to go at the moment...any other suggestions? Thanks Jam R

Nov 18, 2006, 07:39 AM	#4
bjpaul It must be a glitch Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Sanford Centrl Reg, Florida, United States Posts: 3,139	You may be able to find a good controllable power supply that will handle the voltage and amps you want. It won't be cheap, and it will be "manual" in that you will control the volts and amps, but in reality that's what we are doing now when we use an Astro109. For big bucks there are programmable power supplies that will do a CC/CV charge routine. Seen some that will do 1000 watts. Brad

Nov 18, 2006, 08:19 AM	#5
RD Blakeslee Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,548	I'm with Brad. E.g: http://radios4you.com/powersupplies.html These will do any chemistry that can be charged CC/CV. IMO, use on A123s with the LBA10 balancer, or the like; there seems to be some variability in these cells, at least as found on eBay. - RD

Nov 18, 2006, 08:32 AM	#6
Jam Rectified Todays a good day to fly Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 973	Thanks guys Gonna ask a really daft question now and show how little I know about electronics, but how would I go about charging a 10S a123 pack with one of these power supplies. Apart from knowing that I will have to sit there keeping an eye on it, what would I tell it to do? Sorry for the dumb ass question but remember, there are no silly questions, only silly answers....please educate me. Thanks Jam R

Nov 18, 2006, 09:00 AM	#7
RD Blakeslee Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,548	Jam, The power supplies I've referenced that can put out enough amperage to charge A123s in a reasonable length of time only go up to 30 volts, so they won't do 10s 123s. Sorry. But I would be happy to outline the proceedure for using one, if you're still interested. - RD

Nov 18, 2006, 09:24 AM	#8
Jam Rectified Todays a good day to fly Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 973	Hi RD, Yeah, when I looked I thought that I need 36volts for a 10S A123 but they only go up to 30.....maybe it would be simplest to get a couple of Astros but if you could outline the manual process if I did manage to find a suitable power supply that would be very much appreciated. I understand by lack of knowledge on these things and would like to learn. Thanks Jam R

Nov 18, 2006, 10:10 AM	#9
Gene Bond Crash Master Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,207	Basically, you set the power supply for the finish voltage (36v), and then set the current limit for the max you want to charge at (10a)... It will put out 10a, in the CC mode, until the voltage reaches the set level, and the current will taper to maintain the set level... Simple and easy. The balancer is a must, IMO. These cells don't seem to be in great shape when we get them, and from reports, seem to get better (or die early) as we cycle them a few times. I'm sure there's a 500w power supply available (50v/10a) but it's going to be expensive. It might be cheaper to look at using 2 5s packs and parallel charge them like from 2 30v/10a supplies? (each with a balancer)

Nov 18, 2006, 10:27 AM	#10
Jam Rectified Todays a good day to fly Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 973	Hi, Thanks for the response. Unfortunately I am going to be flying a 10S 2P setup of the 123s and I am gonna make 4 10S packs and I don't really want to split them into 5S's....So is the best option to just get a couple of 109s and charge them as 9S Lipos? Seems that you can get the 109 for around $110, what amps to they supply when set to 9S Lipo? Thanks Jam R

Nov 18, 2006, 10:47 AM	#11
everydayflyer Southern Pride Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Haralson County GA. USA Posts: 24,223	An AF-109 is approx. 90 watts max. so approx. 2.5A for a 10 cell (36V) battery. I charge my A123 3S at 8.25A and a 4S at 6.5A and it is close to maxed out. Charles

Nov 18, 2006, 11:07 AM	#12
jamin Big 3D Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Lufkin, TX Posts: 849	Some people are using a 12v lead battery and this device: http://slkelectronics.com/lipodapter/index.htm There is some info around post #130 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...23#post6373482

Nov 18, 2006, 11:27 AM	#13
Jam Rectified Todays a good day to fly Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 973	OK - I found an 800w power supply that is rated at 36volt, 11.1 Amp - would that be much use to me? I think tha 123s are only rated upto 10Amp max but is there something I could do to use this supply? Thank Jam R P.S. I said earlierthat I am no electronics whizz....

Nov 18, 2006, 11:40 AM	#14
Hugeone Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Canada,Quebec Posts: 606	If you are no electronic wizz, maybe it'll be wiser not to use a power supply to charge your battery, IMHO. -Hugo

Nov 18, 2006, 11:44 AM	#15
Jam Rectified Todays a good day to fly Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 973	Hi Hugo - thanks - I see your point - but I do want to learn and I am not a total numpty, its just not something I have ever had the time to learn much about - but now I have a reason to......