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Old Nov 15, 2006, 01:08 PM
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skycar

My skycar prototype using phoenix 10 to power the main motor. uses four servos and veins for thrust vector control and gyro for tail motor.
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Last edited by Snott; Nov 20, 2006 at 11:03 PM.
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Old Nov 16, 2006, 09:06 PM
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video? Looks cool
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Old Nov 16, 2006, 11:39 PM
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sorry no video, i did get as far as a tethered test flight, tail worked great but it bucked like a stallion and also funny thing happened, on the ground the controls worked ok but in the air they worked in reverse still havent got around that yet so has sat in idle till i get around that control problem and go for a full size model .
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Old Nov 24, 2006, 07:45 AM
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can't get around it

From what I've been told with VOTL's of this type, the reverse controls on the ground to the air is normal, so probably won't be able to work around it. Have you tried adding a little counter weight below it, kind of like a streamer, it works well with micro planes where they require the antenea lead to counter balance.
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Old Nov 24, 2006, 05:09 PM
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Thats interesting i was thinking of having a switch that was for on the ground operation and then flicking for inflight mode once off it,kinda like an idle up switch on a heli.it has a short moment arm for the tail so stability more than likely compromised hence the bucking, next step 3 axis gyro should sort that out.with the right materials and motor battery combo it would be possible to make a man size electric personal flying craft you think?.all the controls could just be big rc stuff and you could conect the flying controls to the radio in the cockpit.you could use a "co pilot" as a back up system if you fell asleep at the wheel.
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Old Nov 24, 2006, 07:07 PM
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complexity

Sounds like you are making this into a pretty complex project. We know counter rotational blades work well, also heli rotor's add further stability, I like the simplicity with the Picoz heli I have, the assembly floats between the top rotor and the lower cancelling each other making it ultra stable, yet ultra simple with no gyro. I also recall seeing something similar to what you are thinking along personal flying craft done by the military with limited success. I'd try a 3 tube/rotor system before a single for increased stability regardless, so basically, 3 of your flying tubes connected together to handle 3 axis control.

So far, in my opinion, your's is by far in the lead of this competition since you are pushing the boundries with something more original then the traditional designs, so am rooting for you to win this one and have to add something that's been kicking around my head for a while I think you might be able to use.

It's kind of a varient of the traditional gyro, where you surround the cylinder with 4 spinning tubes, if you are able to adjust the pitch equally and get them to spin the same based upon a counter rotational system, ie. the force generated leans into each other, this might not only give you the stability, if articulated correctly, can adjust the pitch and you don't have to rely upon the flaps for control at all. Take an off the shelf kids toy gyro or bycicle wheel to feel the force I'm talking about, eventually I'll try to incorporate that into another flying disc myself, eliminating the need for an external rudder and stabilizer which would really blow people's minds away.
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Old Nov 24, 2006, 07:52 PM
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yeah the gyro force is awesome. you think if you get the gyro spinning supersonic you can defy gravity?. my man size idea would use four props, probably 90 size heli rotors with pitch for height control and using motor mixing for steering(thats whats in my head anyway).if i had the stuff kicking around i would be building it in the back shed but i think would cost at least $50,000 for the best motors and equipment to acomplish such a project and that on a budget..
With todays higher end rc radio equipment you could outffit a fly by wire system with computer controlled back ups quite easily, we use this technology allready everyday in rc helis so why not put a man in there, its gotten a lot more reliable dont you think?, electonics!.
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Old Nov 24, 2006, 10:54 PM
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nail on the head

You hit the nail on the head with the supersonic gyro, seeing it manifest in person as a kid was simply amazing and I've been kicking that one around my head for 27 years....... Will have something in rc format of that nature in the future, agree, 50k is around the price tag for attempting something like that.

Electronics have came a long way, still not 100% with any of it, too much static electricity in the air and conducting through anything that touches any circut board, that and heat cause unusual things to happen which defy traditional logic, then we have the quality control factor which is typically minimum from anything that comes from China, then of course, anything mass produced will always have a fraction of defective units leak through to the consumer no matter how tight the quality control. I've beat my head against the wall building computers in the past and have to delegate that the micro world still is not fully addressed and with a human being at the mercy of the flying platform, it's still risky.
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Old Nov 25, 2006, 05:59 AM
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I've beat my head against the wall building computers in the past and have to delegate that the micro world still is not fully addressed and with a human being at the mercy of the flying platform, it's still risky.
Reminds me of those old black and white movie reels ive seen on discovery of guys in the 1900s flinging themsleves of mountains in home made gliders trying to learn how to fly(literally), sure some of them cartwheeled to the bottom with death defying results but look what we can do today and think of it as common place. just needs someone to take the extra steps, the moller skycar is great but i think we need a new power source to go to the next level. good talking to you anyway, have lived out in many dreams a flying ship that is not effected by gravity in the traditional sense.
I wonder how much you could pick up a second hand f16 canopy and cockpit for.You could programme it so that if one of the rotors failed they all went in to auto rotate mode for a shot at a safe landing,as safe as a current full size helicopter.
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Old Nov 25, 2006, 07:23 AM
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Agreed

I think we are losing people at this point, hehe. I literally had something come to me today, quite obscure reference points, but is based upon odds and ends, one including a 100 lb compound bow I have in the corner of my shop, then reflecting upon observation with a skateboarder being able to gain momentum and foward movement on a flat piece of pavement without dropping his foot to the ground.

I agree, traditional propulsion has it's limitations, exploring into others should be developed, I'm sure there is a vast universe of concepts and ideas yet to be discovered and the fundemental thinking along the elements themselves ultimately, the book itself will be rewritten. Looking in the past, there has been too many "proven" accepted scientific theories that held their ground accross the board, only to be completely uprooted and now shunned with today's understandings, think of how what we discuss and accept presently, looking back to from a perspective 100-10,000 years from now would be and have to consider, likely would be comparable.

Back to the original project, I've been talking to another guy that's built another version of what you are doing, calling it the flying pyrimid, after explaining that I do have some heli experience but never built one of these, I am interested in doing so, explained that it may be adventagous for me to go closer to heli controls, ie. tilting rotor with my build version rather then elevon/rudder controls. Take note, there is a Dec 15th deadline on your project, so can't get too deep into theory, and as I recall, nothing in the contest stipulates it has to fly well, that, and I have the feeling based upon how it's worded that they are looking for something different and leaning towards the cutting edge.
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Old Nov 26, 2006, 10:22 PM
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my next project to have full heli controls,pitch control etc. these things really need to be able to fly precisely and at any attitude as opposed to a fixed pitch design wich really just floats on air, to beat gravity you really have to kick it up the beehind.winning not the motive but this competition has given me plenty of scope and enthusiasm to push through to the next level.
Using four trex heads i think i will be close to a 1/3 scale from real life.
I love this hobby.
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Old Nov 27, 2006, 08:44 AM
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Keep on moving foward

......................
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Old Nov 27, 2006, 01:18 PM
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You can get away with one servo to change the pitch if you turn this one on its side, also p10 powered(but no conventional cyclic control).
I would guess You would need another two servos to control vector thrusting if you were to mount the motor to do so.,would be easy to move the motor in one direction(hinged) and then have the motor on another platform(hinged) that you can move in the other 90 degree direction at the same time for full 360 control(mechanical mixing).
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