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Old Sep 01, 2002, 11:24 PM
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Improved Cyclic Response Eco8

Hello,
While reading a thread started by hank f , titled "All you heli designers, listen up ", I came across this statement made by Foss1997 ....
... " note the eco 8 has a slow cyclic response which carlo and I are working on fixing ".
Has anyone used / installed the carbon fiber flybar. I did several weeks ago. I have not had time for many test flights. So far, my Eco has turned into a wild and crazy machine. Very fast cyclic response. Could be "yawn city" to others ...? A friend of mine with nearly 20 years experience flying model planes and heli's flew my Eco8. His comment was, " this thing is fast ". He was refering to the cyclic responce . During my 1st test flight, and on a windy day, the Eco did seem to pick up some pitchy-ness in fast forward flight.
Comments welcome and more information about my setup can be supplied for anyone interested. Later, Jon
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Old Sep 02, 2002, 09:17 AM
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toledo, oh, usa
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Jon,

Ive heard to stay away from the CF flybar, but never a reason why.....I suppose maybe its too flimsy for the biggier (10 cells +) eco's? As with the piccolo's CF flybar, I suppose it'll be hard to detect cracks in it. Be careful and check it often!

On the other hand, how much quicker than the stock flybar does the CF one feel?



Scott
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Old Sep 02, 2002, 10:33 AM
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Hello Scott,
Thanks for the tip reguarding possible stress cracks / post-crash or otherwise on the C.F. flybar. I hadn't given that much thought.
With my limited number of flights using this new flybar, the probable flexing which may cause pitchy-ness would be my only guess as to a reason not to give it a try. Perhaps I'm getting more familiar with my Eco's quicker reflexes. I don't notice the pitchy-ness except for more windy days. To date I have 80 flights on my Eco. The last 22 flights have been with the C.F. flybar.
I'm using 10 cell 1700Mah packs in my Eco8. Motor and Esc are Jeti. Esc is the 40-3P and the motor is the Phasor 30/3 pushing a 23 T pinion gear.
How much quicker than original flybar?
Hmmm,... No comparison really. My high cyclic rate mode w/the original flybar couldn't touch what I'm getting w/low rate mode, using the C.F. flybar. Switching to high rates now ... I need to have full attention on the Eco. Big time !! In my opinion, it's super fast. Wouldn't surprise me if my Eco could do hovering flips. May need more headspeed and perhaps power for that stunt, not more cyclic responce.
I need further tests, especially on roll rate. I have a feeling that it will make my Raptor look like an old man rolling over.
I'll get back to you on this topic.
Later, Jon
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Old Sep 02, 2002, 11:03 AM
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Thats very interesting.....I wonder why it pitches up more....is it more flexible? If i could just get my eco to have as much cyclic authority as my rap30 does I would be in heaven!

Scott
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Old Sep 02, 2002, 02:15 PM
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Hello Scott,
Yes, the new flybar is best described by me as being springy(?) This, along with being lighter, longer and creating a bigger disc durning flight could have the potential for a less stable attitude. I'd say that most all model heli's can be quite twitchy / pitchy if setup for extremely fast cyclic response. I think it's like any other situation where you deal with extremes. You loose something to gain something ... stability for radical. I could add weights and stiffeners to the flybar. I could dial out some of the servo ATV, add some "expo" , maybe larger paddles and get back to the feel of a more stock Eco8 setup. Question being, why do it?
More time in the air will tell me how to fine tune the setup or fall in love with the new agility of my C.F. flybar equipped Eco8 just the way it is. The only other modification that I did, which may or may not effect my cyclic responce/mixing is to have shortened the mini-control rod (attaches to seesaw and main blade holder) to 17mm,center to center. The manual suggests this rod to be something like 28mm center to end (page#11). Later, Jon
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Old Sep 02, 2002, 06:42 PM
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Jon,

Ive decided ill give the CF boom a try unless many on hte ikarus bbs suggest against it (ill try a search). Changing flybars is easier than my other idea of trying to get more authority. Thanks for your posts!

Scott
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Old Sep 02, 2002, 06:53 PM
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Hello Scott and All.....
I managed 5 flights with my Eco8 today. 100% of the time was used for learning more about the effects of the light weight carbon fiber flybar and the Eco8's cyclic performance using it.I am still using the Eco8's wooden blades and will expect great improvement once I decide to install my MS blades. So far..call me chicken !
First were more loops. I turned/dialed down my low and high elevator rates slightly. Low rate is now at 55% and high is 90%. This adjustment and later on the aileron's adjustment was made on my 8uhfs's ccpm mode and not the basic servo ATV setting mode.
The loops were no problem. Vertical climb could be better. So could my skills. No loss in altitude . I tried a couple of hovering flips with great success and ease. Slight increase in pitch, pulled back on the cyclic stick and over she went. Grab some negative and on around she went. No hesitation going into or out off the stationary flip. Reminded me of my Raptor doing the flips.
I never rolled the Eco until today. Something isn't right. I needed every bit of the 100% aileron, (high rate) to complete the roll. I did dial my low rate down, which helped make my forward flight look much smoother. The first 1/2, going from upright to inverted is really fast and seems to take no effort . Once inverted my Eco really slowed it's roll rate. The entire roll took about 2.5 seconds, no longer. Half a second going inverted and the rest of the time was used rolling back into the upright position. Very sluggish. Again, the Eco liked the inverted position and did not care to leave it.
I can think of several reasons for what I consider to be slow roll rates. Lack of skill, experience and being anxious is way up on the list. I'm using a 23T pinion gear. A 24T gear is recommended for acro style flying with my motor and Esc setup. Very important is the main blades. The Eco8 woodies are not designed for this type of flying.
So ... I'm glad that I installed the carbon fiber flybar. In my opinion, without the extra cyclic kick from a lighter flybar, my rolls would have taken alot more work and may not have happened at all today. Sorry for the novel, Jon
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Old Sep 02, 2002, 08:12 PM
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Jon,

Thanks for the update....ill definetly be trying out the cf flybar.......

Scott
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