SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Dec 02, 2006, 06:02 PM
Flying electric since 1986
Mark Wolf's Avatar
USA, IN, Brownsburg
Joined Oct 2000
1,764 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pda4you
Sounds good Gary - mine flew today for the first time as well.

eZone review comming soon - two pics for you now.....suffice it to say I am still grinning!



Mike
Wow! I've had my eye on this plane for a while now... but that pic pushed me over the edge! I picked one up at my local hobby shop this morning.
Mark Wolf is offline Find More Posts by Mark Wolf
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Stevens Aeromodel Skybuggy 100
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Dec 02, 2006, 06:41 PM
Registered User
pda4you's Avatar
USA, TX, Trophy Club
Joined May 2002
14,520 Posts
You will love it Mark a great little plane.
pda4you is offline Find More Posts by pda4you
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 02, 2006, 06:44 PM
Electricholics Anonymous
claybuster's Avatar
WARREN, MICHIGAN
Joined Jul 2005
1,959 Posts
For any of you guys trying to get one of these it looks like you can get one here.
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Airpl...=WPL&offset=25
Mike
claybuster is offline Find More Posts by claybuster
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 02, 2006, 08:28 PM
Ron
Registered User
Chilliwack B.C. Canada
Joined Nov 1999
1,318 Posts
spinnetti: if you are wanting to be doing rolls with this model, you better take out the aileron to rudder mix..I'll bet you have right rudder mixed in with right aileron....
If you stop and figure out what that does to your attempts to get a roll out of her, you'll remove the mix :-) This model sounds like it flies reasonably scaleish, and as such will do a very barrely roll. Not axial in any sense of the word...when you read that these planes were very agile and aerobatic and powerful, you have to remember that this was in comparison to everything else out there at the time. By today's standards they would be classified sort of as slugs...under powered etc.
learning to use the rudder to overcome adverse yaw in the turns, and using rudder and elevator in rolls, as well as using rudder to correct yaw on landing approach, is a skill that's learned through repeated efforts, and once you have it mastered you will be flying this model in a true scale fashion...you will also be the recipient of many words of praise for your " skilled " flying from " the other guys" at your field.
It is also a great feeling to be able to master this type of flying.....just about anyone can bore holes in the sky....few of us can really fly in a scale fashion, planning every manoeuvre, and executing it as planned....there are two such pilots at our field...one won the NATS last time he entered, the other one came in third.
Ron is offline Find More Posts by Ron
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 02, 2006, 11:06 PM
Registered User
wpnguy's Avatar
lakeridge VA.
Joined Jan 2005
77 Posts
Maidened mine today and have to agree, this is one nice plane. Now that I know it will fly, it is time to add some details. I can find alot of info on the cockpit, guns etc, but does anyone have a good source for details on the engine, that plastic motor on the battery hatch has to go.
wpnguy is offline Find More Posts by wpnguy
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 03, 2006, 05:50 AM
Electricholics Anonymous
claybuster's Avatar
WARREN, MICHIGAN
Joined Jul 2005
1,959 Posts
wpnguy,
Here's a page that will help with some engine details.
http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Sal...vii/index.html
Mike
claybuster is offline Find More Posts by claybuster
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 03, 2006, 06:16 AM
Electricholics Anonymous
claybuster's Avatar
WARREN, MICHIGAN
Joined Jul 2005
1,959 Posts
Here's a couple pics of a engine I did for a D-VII build.
Mike
claybuster is offline Find More Posts by claybuster
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 03, 2006, 09:15 AM
SCCA, EAA, M.E.
spinnetti's Avatar
USA, KY, Verona
Joined Nov 2001
3,146 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron
spinnetti: if you are wanting to be doing rolls with this model, you better take out the aileron to rudder mix..I'll bet you have right rudder mixed in with right aileron....
If you stop and figure out what that does to your attempts to get a roll out of her, you'll remove the mix :-) This model sounds like it flies reasonably scaleish, and as such will do a very barrely roll. Not axial in any sense of the word...when you read that these planes were very agile and aerobatic and powerful, you have to remember that this was in comparison to everything else out there at the time. By today's standards they would be classified sort of as slugs...under powered etc.
learning to use the rudder to overcome adverse yaw in the turns, and using rudder and elevator in rolls, as well as using rudder to correct yaw on landing approach, is a skill that's learned through repeated efforts, and once you have it mastered you will be flying this model in a true scale fashion...you will also be the recipient of many words of praise for your " skilled " flying from " the other guys" at your field.
It is also a great feeling to be able to master this type of flying.....just about anyone can bore holes in the sky....few of us can really fly in a scale fashion, planning every manoeuvre, and executing it as planned....there are two such pilots at our field...one won the NATS last time he entered, the other one came in third.
I hear ya. Yesterday I flew out two full packs, kept it at scale looking speed and tried elevator for the rolls.. I'll also take out the rudder mix (somebody had suggested I try that, but it didn't really help anything). I find it turns just fine without rudder, and using rudder in the turns didn't seem to make much difference, but I'll experiment. Using rudder properly on landing approach is my biggest challenge right now (ground handling is a monster on this thing!). I was doing inverted laps around the backyard and my pilot ejected! It was pretty funny.
spinnetti is online now Find More Posts by spinnetti
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 03, 2006, 09:23 AM
Registered User
pda4you's Avatar
USA, TX, Trophy Club
Joined May 2002
14,520 Posts
Mike that is amazing - I may have to do something with mine!

Quote:
I'll also take out the rudder mix (somebody had suggested I try that, but it didn't really help anything)
It was me - and I have flown the plane both with and without - it helps significantly IMHO.....just my $.02. It especially helps in overall flight but also in rolls - I promise! But that all that stuff boils down to personal preference.

Ground handling is fun - narrow gear with no shock absorbsion and a low wing to contend with. It does take a GREAT DEAL of attention on the ground.

Quote:
If you stop and figure out what that does to your attempts to get a roll out of her, you'll remove the mix :-)
Ron - you will have to help me "figure" out what rudder does in rolls - I guess I don't know!

Now I agree most of us "plank" pilots need to learn how to use the left stick. I flew a 1/4 scale cub for a number of years that taught me. And you can still crab with the mix in - Did it just yesterday with this very airplane!

Mike
pda4you is offline Find More Posts by pda4you
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by pda4you; Dec 03, 2006 at 09:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 03, 2006, 10:31 AM
Chesapeake Bay RC Club
Gary Hoorn's Avatar
USA, MD, Annapolis
Joined Feb 2005
4,961 Posts
I taught flying for many years so coordinated RC flying is second nature to me. First of all make sure the plane is properly trimmed. Next I often use a small model and illustrate the control movements to use. We discuss this on the ground before ever taking to the air.

Picture this:
The craft is upright all control surfaces are in neutral
Roll the plane onto its left side - To prevent the nose from dropping add right rudder.
As the plane becomes inverted release the rudder and add down elevator.
Roll continues and right side is down and you now need left rudder to keep the nose up.
Upright all controls again at neutral.

This is a very simplistic explanation as the movement of the controls will have to be coordinated. You will be adding elevator as you relax rudder etc. Practice a few mistakes high and don't be surprised if it takes a bit of time to make it smooth and pretty. Improving your flying is always better than just boring holes in the sky.
Best of luck and hope this helps someone,
Gary

EDITED: Thanks Ron - slinks sheepishly away after making error...
Gary Hoorn is online now Find More Posts by Gary Hoorn
Last edited by Gary Hoorn; Dec 03, 2006 at 01:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 03, 2006, 11:41 AM
Ron
Registered User
Chilliwack B.C. Canada
Joined Nov 1999
1,318 Posts
pda:
If you have rudder mixed in the same direction as your ailerons, it will tend to drive the model into the ground on the first part of the roll. Unless of course you are able to compensate with the left thumb....but then if the pilot is proficient with the left thumb, he doesn't need the mix anyway....also the mix only works well at one particular speed...if you speed up or slow down, it is not right...slower speed turns need more rudder...higher speed ones less. The way I learned to fly, ailerons set up the bank, and keep the wings at the correct angle...rudder controls yaw ( turns) ...on some models you have to set up the bank with the ailerons, turn with the rudder and then compensate with opposite ailerons ( crossed controls) at a certain stage of the turn in order to make it look nice and smooth , and keep the nose into the turn. PBY is one...Cub is another These two models also need lots of aileron differential, but that's another can of worms altogether...
Gary has very simply explained the roll above...except for the part where there it says ( right side up left rudder...should say right side down left rudder ) I know Gary knows that, but I guess he just missed the typo before he posted. the varying amounts of each control input are a practised skill that is learned over lots of flights.
That's part of what makes model airplanes fun to build and fly. :-)
Ron is offline Find More Posts by Ron
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 03, 2006, 03:08 PM
SCCA, EAA, M.E.
spinnetti's Avatar
USA, KY, Verona
Joined Nov 2001
3,146 Posts
Thanks for the flight tips folks.. I finally go to the point (after 4 years) that I seem to be able to throw up anything in the sky and "Bore holes", but also realized that is boring by itself.. I hope I don't trash a bunch of planes learning how to use all my controls on my way to some real aerobatic flying
spinnetti is online now Find More Posts by spinnetti
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 03, 2006, 04:44 PM
Flying electric since 1986
Mark Wolf's Avatar
USA, IN, Brownsburg
Joined Oct 2000
1,764 Posts
I've built a ton of ARF's and I must say, this was one of the best. It really just fell together. The only problem I had with mine was covering wrinkles. I got most of them out, but the last few proved too much and the covering began to pull at the seams. So, I'll just have to live with the remaining imperfections. From the looks of things, there should be no problem keeping it under 22 ounces despite adding cockpit coaming and spraying the entire model with a coat of flat clear. IMO, dulling the finish gives it a much more realistic look and less like a plastic toy.

I had to order the electrics so all I've got is a ready airframe for another few days.


Mark Wolf is offline Find More Posts by Mark Wolf
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Stevens Aeromodel Skybuggy 100
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 03, 2006, 04:46 PM
"Have Glue - Will Travel"
dawnron1's Avatar
Ft. Worth, Texas
Joined Jan 2004
2,428 Posts
Hello all,

Here are a couple of pics I took of Mike's D.VII yesterday for his upcoming RC Groups review. It is indeed a wonderful flier!

Ronnie
dawnron1 is offline Find More Posts by dawnron1
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 03, 2006, 04:50 PM
Registered User
pda4you's Avatar
USA, TX, Trophy Club
Joined May 2002
14,520 Posts
Gary/Ron - thanks...

Quote:
rudder controls yaw ( turns)
Got to disagree with you there Ron. Yaw NEVER turns any airplane. It simply yaws the airplane. Fly a Cap (or nearly any other IMAC plane) - and make it turn without just the rudder (no elevator!). Yaw just kicks the tail. Elevator turns it! Well (and you know this) elevator, Ailerons and rudder all turn airplanes.

I think you will both agree that rudder does "different" things on different airplanes. Including some fun adverse yaw airplanes that were a real treat. BTW the SE5a does exhibit some significant adverse yaw in some banked attitudes - thus I have very little rudder mix in. In fact I almost crashed the SE5a when correcting with opposite rudder in a 60 degree bank. The adverse yaw kicked it opposite wound up inverted (at about 30 feet) so fast I almost didn't react quickly enough.

Mix is a crutch. Period. But it can make some planes much more enjoyable to fly when you are lazy (like me!).

I agree on aerobatic airplanes you generally do not want it. But these are WW1 bipes not aerobats. Plain and simple. The mix is there for flight not rolls. These planes fly and turn with a great deal more responsiveness with rudder added in.

Yaw is also very certainly different than roll, but yaw and roll together (yep in the same direction) tend to roll many planes faster. I know that it causes negative pitch input and that advanced pilots would be better to manually correct.

The "up" rudder pitch correction you want actually slows the airplane - thus slowing the roll. Remember he wanted "faster" more responsive rolls. Co-ordinated rudder makes it faster opposite slows it.

On WW1 bipes I want a slight dive, pull up a roll that decreases altitude (the full scale ones sure did). All this to make a very scale roll, not correcting the barrel or pitch nature of these airplanes.

I recommended only one correction for the person complaining about roll rate that is "down" elevator in the inverted portion of the roll - and just a touch. That is what I recommend to all rookies and rolls.

This is all for a sluggish WW1 bipe. As you can imagine on my pattern ships I NEVER MIX any aileron-rudder. Can you imagine point rolls with rudder mix? I can't. In fact I usually don't mix in anything even knife edge corrections (tuck).

So any credit for the co-ordinated rudder kicking the plane around faster?

Mike
pda4you is offline Find More Posts by pda4you
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by pda4you; Dec 03, 2006 at 05:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale Great Planes ElectriFly Fokker D.VII HogCrewChief Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 2 Aug 03, 2007 06:52 AM
New Product **NEW** Great Planes ElectriFly Fokker D.VII Park Flyer ARF Mandy Electric Warbirds 3 Sep 12, 2006 02:26 PM
New Product **NEW** Great Planes ElectriFly Fokker D.VII Park Flyer ARF Mandy Product Announcements 0 Aug 31, 2006 02:30 PM
Discussion **NEW** Great Planes ElectriFly Fokker D.VII Park Flyer ARF Jim T. Graham Product Announcements 4 Aug 18, 2006 10:50 PM
New Product Great Planes ElectriFly Fokker D.VII Park Flyer ARF Mandy Scale Kit/Scratch Built 0 Aug 15, 2006 06:47 PM