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Old Nov 04, 2006, 05:36 PM
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Smyk's Avatar
Queens, NY
Joined Mar 2004
530 Posts
New Product
New Charger: ELPROG - Pulsar 2.07

I have just seen Sticky thread about chargers, Power suplies, balancers.
I do not see PULSAR 2 being mentioned.
It is one of the black horses in Europe.
This charger is made in science facility located in Poland
This is not a product produced in large quantities
I have decided to import it to USA.
Waiting list for this year arrival is open until November 15 at $299
You got my word this is superb lab quality 250W charger. Every single unit is individually assembled and tested. Cute thing, It puts the discharged energy back to the main battery. Very few chargers got that option.

To make the story short check all the links on my site
PULSAR 2.07 from ELPROG

ZM
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Old Nov 06, 2006, 10:57 AM
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Queens, NY
Joined Mar 2004
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I know
It does not look attractive
I got the same impression while I put my hands on it for a first time, but then...

here is a part for experts
What the PULSAR can do for you besides standard features?

1 Fast Charging algorithm for Li-xx
2.LiIonPO4(A123) capability
3 Very effective (proprietary) algorithms for cycling ( new cells) and regeneration of used NiCd and NiMh
4 Ability to set different charge and discharge rate for cycling
5 Test function to check resistance of the cells under load
6 Charge sensing by INFLEX (rare), REFLEX and DeltaPeak (Hi and Low)
7 SOFT start for charging and SOFT discharging at the end of the cycle - many knows how important it is with high current, large capacity cells to not let them overheat or get negative
8 PC interface and PC programming for precise recording of battery performance included - Here you can see what kind of resolution PULSAR has
9. Battery pack temperature sensor included
10 Battery pack cooling fan outlet
11 Charger is rated at 250W and could do up to 60V packs. If by any chance dialed charge rate is too high PULSAR honestly tells you about it and sets charge current at maximum of its capability
12. Reverse main battery recharging while discharging your pack - this option allows you to discharge your pack at much higher rate without worrying about heat dissipation restrictions.
13. PULSAR is 1/2 size of Shultze and weights only 24 oz (670 G)
14 ELPROG Balancer for Li-xx is on the way, but you can use any balancer on the market

I got one more PULSAR 2.07 for beta testing
Anybody wants to take a challenge and place an expert report here?


ZM
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Old Nov 06, 2006, 11:22 AM
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Madrid (Spain)
Joined Oct 2004
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Do you joke or what?
I remained silent after looking at the specs... because they let one's mouth speechless!

It remembers me a bit to the "powercube", an awesome unit and still rated "only" at 200W, with similar features.

But this unit has some things REALLY unique, or VERY rare at least.
-NiX "inflex" detection, this need some advanced maths inside the unit to be done, and lets you have your packs charged and cool if you want so (sometimes you want them charged and warm).
-Discharging with "soft" ending currents, again very rare.
-Discharging high currents "into" the power battery (powercube does, but at less highe rates).
-various programs found on some chargers, not all in the same unit.
And so on.

I am a bit far from you, in fact am looking to contact them directly as they are europeans as well, but am sure someone there will be pleased to have one unit to test...
Congratulations and regards
Josep
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Old Nov 06, 2006, 11:53 AM
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Queens, NY
Joined Mar 2004
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Josep
Contact Piotr Piechowski
He got these chargers in stock for Euro customers
You should have it in few days
They go for 270 Euro , but you need some realy good battery for it
I have tried couple of large ones and some power supply units
The only battery capable to keep up with this charger is coiled OPTIMA Deep Cycle or Marine Dual Purpose (Blue Top)
The others got too much of the self discharge rate ( voltage drop during let say 7 cycles - 48 hours) and charges are not consistent to the last digit while OPTIMA holds voltage surpisingly steady to the 0.1 volt over 48 hours period.
Are they available in Spain?

ZM
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Old Nov 06, 2006, 12:37 PM
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so for that money it does not even balance or monitor the cells?
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Old Nov 06, 2006, 01:16 PM
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Cracow, Poland
Joined Nov 2003
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Cool to see that one new products is from Poland. When was the 2.06 version relased?
Pulsar 2 overally is not very new.

And I must agree that the lack of build-in balancer is a real disadventage.

See you on Zar 2007, Smyk.
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Old Nov 08, 2006, 10:04 PM
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Queens, NY
Joined Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC Toys USA
so for that money it does not even balance or monitor the cells?

I am not sure what is your point here
Non of this "big bore" chargers got balancers build in because they will loose some of the prime capabilities. In Pulsar case features like INFLEX, Reverse discharge option would be lost. Besides this Pulsar is capable to charge up to 12 LiPo cells. Would you imagine how many outlets it must have around his waist.
PULSAR 2 in LI-xx mode creates friendly enviroment for any balancer. It has soft start ( and enough time to detect high voltage cell), soft finish and voltage adjuster to say the least and been doing it for nice couple of years together with loads of other features. Make an effort and read Pulsar's manual or any of article from Euro magazines to catch up what is all about.

The only larger 8 cell charger-balancer I found
E-station
is Lipo dedicated unit and is far short in power out and other features
and have not been time tested while universal Pulsar is - hands down.
If you would like to compare capabilities and prices of "big bore" chargersTake a look here
Man with your expierience should know the difference

PS By the way I like your power supply offerings

regards
ZM
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Old Nov 09, 2006, 10:32 AM
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Cracow, Poland
Joined Nov 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smyk
Non of this "big bore" chargers got balancers build in because they will loose some of the prime capabilities. In Pulsar case features like INFLEX, Reverse discharge option would be lost.
Why do you think so Smyk?
Quote:
Besides this Pulsar is capable to charge up to 12 LiPo cells. Would you imagine how many outlets it must have around his waist.
I don't see any problem here, the balancer connectors are pretty small.
Quote:
PULSAR 2 in LI-xx mode creates friendly enviroment for any balancer. It has soft start ( and enough time to detect high voltage cell)
I'm not a charger freak but how the charger without balancer can detect the imbalance in pack? This for sure won't replace the normal balancer circuit.

I still see no reason for don't having build-in balancer in such charger.
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Old Nov 10, 2006, 05:01 AM
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Hi,
I already contacted Piotr, everything is going fine.
As for balancing, probably next generation "high power" chargers will all have balancing interfaces. After all, you do have more possibilities to have balancing problems with a 12s pack than you rhave with a 2 or 3s pack...
But then they will also probably cost another 100 or more bucks, close to 400 or 500.
Me, I like the balancing chargers but most times they are "just looking" at the cells and not working (in my packs at least).
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Old Nov 11, 2006, 12:26 PM
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Queens, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Szymon Bartus
Why do you think so Smyk?.
None of my statements reflect what I think about it
I have simply called Mr Krymski and listened to his comments about how overly difficult charging and discharging of multicells LiPo issue is.
I have discussed this matter with my club's electric guru Fred T(electronic professional) who has probably every top of the line charger in his shop and he supports the opinon that Inflex and Reverse charging has to go to make the PULSAR operate through balancer permanently built in


Quote:
Originally Posted by Szymon Bartus
I don't see any problem here, the balancer connectors are pretty small..
The issue with connectors is not quiet established yet.
As soon the number of cell increases it could be really complicated ( 12!)
Many current balancers, besides standardized outlets, have universal hook ups with tighting screws to solve the aggrevation, but confusion grows with the number of cells anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Szymon Bartus
I'm not a charger freak but how the charger without balancer can detect the imbalance in pack? This for sure won't replace the normal balancer circuit..
So!?
Then what is your primary interest in this field??
You can have charger charging and balancing every individual cell separatly - usally 3-4 cells and it is a best bet for LiPo pack user only.
You can have a balancer - monitor build into charger and be stuck with it.
you can have a balancer - monitor plugged between charger and battery pack
and with a little expense, pick the best balancer for your application regarding the number of cells and configuration.
you can have the balancer integrated with the battery packs allowing the batteries to be monitored while on charge, power flight (early shut off), discharge or storage time. In the event of a large number of cells or packs being partially parallel and partial in the series who knows if it is not the best solution at the given amount of money.
It is not a charger detecting unbalanced cells, the balancer is.
It is only questioned how it handles voltage instability.
It is optimal to put 4, 6 or 8 cell balancer in not so ambitious charger
If the charger is ambitious, the use of other options widens the use of its primary features


Quote:
Originally Posted by Szymon Bartus
I still see no reason for don't having build-in balancer in such charger.
Szymon
Instead of wandering around, be creative and call Elprog and tell them (in your native language) how old and outdated PULSAR 2 charger is. They might not know what you know. Then listen to what they have to say, make all possible notes and come back with some solid data.
Or call Shultze (in another native language) and ask them when are they going to come up with some pro-consumer (like yourself) charger and specify your exact needs in this matter to them. What are they going to say? I'm curious too.
What you are doing is not very constructive.
You must be very young or inexperienced.

Now
In my opinon Universal PULSAR 2 charger is a jewel with some rare features packed in the smallest box on the market. Adding its precision and reliability, it can do marvelous things for you (including charging large LiPo packs) - just give it a chance.

ZM
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Old Nov 13, 2006, 03:51 AM
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Madrid (Spain)
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My charging familiy grows: mine is already ordered so waiting for it...
I was thinking on having a powerful one, and finally I prefer this one to the Power Cube unit.
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Old Nov 26, 2006, 07:06 PM
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Queens, NY
Joined Mar 2004
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Charging A123 cells with PULSAR 2.07

I got to the point this weekend to have a chance to spend some time with the new A123cells and Pulsar 2. I got the balancer for larger packs on the way, but I was curious how these cells behave as a single cell or in pairs.

1. I have checked all 8 new cells for voltage
They all were in 3.311-3.313V level out of the factory - suprisingly tight.
2 Next step was to cycle a couple of them.
The charging went smooth, but the discharge rate of one cell was limited for some reason. I redid the wires and discovered that Pulsar is rather optimized for higher voltage packs; and with two cells, process went by smooth with all numbers between 6A and 10A. No signs of heat. The highest temperature on cells was 26.7C (see graphs)
The bumps on the temp graph were due to touching the sensor or forgetting to put it on cell can
Fan on Pulsar went "on" once.
3. I was worrying about how to balance the freshly charged pairs and found that PULSAR's TEST program has a precise Voltimeter and you can zap the cell with any value of amps for 5 seconds and observe how Voltage on a particular cell fluctuates and compare it with another cell. BINGO. By adjusting Amps volume, I was able to detect 0.003 -0.005V differences between cells. 15 minutes later I have checked it again and one zap with 200mA for 5sec made them perfectly even for some time.
I will check it again later tonight.
But at this point, do I need balancer?
Probably for larger packs, yes.
4. PULSAR has two ways to charge A123 packs
FAST, where the topping voltage is 3.65V, but you can go lower to the 3.45V with 10mA discretion. SOFT, start and 2-3 steps down of soft finish is applied
NORMAL, with 3.6V tip off and gradual lowering the Amps value all way down to 200mA. This seems like a winner against overheating and more capacity pushed in. Average about 200mAh more compared to FAST charging, but this is still under investigation.
5 Discharging is set to 2.8V with soft start and soft finish (Pictures)

Pulsar is great as usual, but these A123 cells are over my head. Rock solid in every measure ( I need to find the way to energize the MPX Tx (6.6V versus 7.2V) with it - other application are straight forward)

More to come

ZM
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Old Nov 27, 2006, 03:47 AM
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Hi SMYK,
Make sure you enable "revers" mode (by pressing and holding E button when you have "Disch." on screen). Of course you can use "revers" only when you power your Pulsar from Pb battery.
That should increase discharge abilities.

Regards form Poland

Adam
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Old Nov 27, 2006, 08:40 AM
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Joined Oct 2004
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Adam, if he's got to 10A with large cell count, he knows about "revers" mode ;-)

ZM,
You probably need to explain a bit more some terms to those who do not have a Pulsar at home...
"Fast" charging in Pulsar language is charging all the way CC and then pulsing current, not completing CV. Less time, less mAh in, a bit overvoltage (they say "ok" for lipos, I do not totally agree).
"Normal" is just that, CC+CV charging. I am doing my A123 this way, 3C (6'9A), everything perfect this week end (7 and 10s packs).
The manual also advises to use "reflex ON" on Lipo and LiPh (A123 or saphion) cells. YES it says so, and yes for those of you who do not remember from old times or are not so old "reflex" is doing negative (discharging) high current pulses. After asking they confirmed me this, I am still working at it to see...

I have to say anyway that I am VERY highly impressed with this unit, specially for NiX. The best charger I saw or own, and believe me I owned and try quite a few, if not most of them.

Josep
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Old Nov 27, 2006, 04:20 PM
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Queens, NY
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REVERSE Discharging

OK
It took me entire day to figure it out

There is a minimal power requirements to run the REVERSE option to discharge batteries (Normal discharge (heat) operates from 0 Watts, 0 Volts- so no worry)
Process in REVERSE mode is getting really messy when supply battery is fully charged and starts to move toward 15.3V mark. I use Optima coiled cells dip cycle marine batty and I love it, but she would stay at 13.5V volts for weeks if fully charged. As soon as you discharge another 10A into it she would go to 15.3V mark in the matter of one minute and the PULSAR gets crazy. I thought I have burned something inside, but it seems like PULSAR is protecting itself really nicely.

ZM
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