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Old Feb 04, 2007, 06:29 PM
Hot Dawg Glider Pilot
schrederman's Avatar
United States, TX, Weatherford
Joined Nov 2002
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Went out today with 10 mph south wind, more down at full flaps, and 1/2 oz more in the nose. There was no lift as the ground's wet and still about 80% snow covered in the fields. Flew my Sky Bird a couple of times to get the thumbs loose, and see if there was lift about... NONE... Went ahead and practiced with the Dragonfly and flew it 8 flights. I was getting better launches than with the Sky Bird, and did finally pick up just enough lift to thermal it downwind about a quarter mile. I put the nose down slightly and she came back against that wind very well. I still had 300' when I got back into the upwind comfort zone. Found another bubble but it was just about zero sink. I didn't work it very far back... That was it for the lift I saw. Still breats working or sittin' at home watching football.... Oddly enough, with the ailerons drooped a bit, she seems to float better than with them reflexed. I tried it both ways and I believe I had better control with them down 15 degrees when in 75 degrees of flap. She floated in like on rails, even with the headwind. I landed it at my feet every time... never even had to jump outa the way...

I'd be dangerous with a good radio...

Jack Womack
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Old Feb 04, 2007, 10:40 PM
Full Scale Better! UOHHHH!
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United States, TX, Lytle
Joined Dec 2006
396 Posts
Thought you went "real" flying today?
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Old Feb 04, 2007, 10:49 PM
Pompano Hill Flyers
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Miami Lakes, Florida, USA
Joined Mar 2003
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Does anyone know if the Dragonfly Strong V is available in the USA?

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Old Feb 04, 2007, 11:12 PM
Hot Dawg Glider Pilot
schrederman's Avatar
United States, TX, Weatherford
Joined Nov 2002
7,844 Posts
Soaring forecast sucked so I didn't make the trip. From the absolute lack of anything going up, I ain't sorry.

Dragonfly available at Soaring USA... Bob would probably order you one with a V-tail. Might be a bit lighter.

Jack
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Old Feb 04, 2007, 11:32 PM
Pompano Hill Flyers
Miami Mike's Avatar
Miami Lakes, Florida, USA
Joined Mar 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schrederman
Dragonfly available at Soaring USA... Bob would probably order you one with a V-tail. Might be a bit lighter.
I just emailed him. I'll report back here.

(It's just that I have this thing about v-tails. )
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Old Feb 05, 2007, 02:57 AM
Registered User
Europe - Belgium
Joined Mar 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schrederman
........I tried it both ways and I believe I had better control with them down 15 degrees when in 75 degrees of flap. She floated in like on rails, even with the headwind. I landed it at my feet every time...
Looks like a nice testcase instead of butterfly, cool experiment.
Jurgen.
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Old Feb 05, 2007, 03:47 AM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miami Mike
Does anyone know if the Dragonfly Strong V is available in the USA?

Dragonfly Strong - $599
http://www.soaringusa.com/products/...category_id=259
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Old Feb 05, 2007, 08:10 AM
Pompano Hill Flyers
Miami Mike's Avatar
Miami Lakes, Florida, USA
Joined Mar 2003
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That link is broken, aeajr. When a link is automatically shortened with three dots somewhere in the middle, you can't just copy and paste it like you did. You have to right-click the original link and copy it that way.

Anyway, you meant to post http://www.soaringusa.com/products/p...ategory_id=259, but that's for the Dragonfly Strong X. Bob answered me already that he can order the V-tail version. I'm thinking about it now.
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Old Feb 05, 2007, 08:25 AM
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V Tail, X tail.

What is the genreal opinon on this?

Of late I have received a lot of feedback that a fully flying X tail is better because there are no incidence issues.

What is the group opinion on this?
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Old Feb 05, 2007, 12:14 PM
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United States, CA, Bakersfield
Joined Jan 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr
V Tail, X tail.

What is the genreal opinon on this?

Of late I have received a lot of feedback that a fully flying X tail is better because there are no incidence issues.

What is the group opinion on this?
I think the X tail is much easier to set up and gives better control. V tails give you interaction between controls, i.e. give a rudder command and get a little elevator thrown in for free.
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Old Feb 05, 2007, 01:06 PM
Pompano Hill Flyers
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United States, FL, Plantation
Joined Sep 2001
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Cool looking plane Mike. New plane for this year's contests?

Mike W
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Old Feb 05, 2007, 01:28 PM
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Williamsburg, VA
Joined Apr 2004
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Ed: Tail Design discussion

Ed;

Not to hijack this thread, but it wasn't too long ago that a discussion on the merits of X and V tails was conducted...

See here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=620127.

If it is still active, you can also visit the DJ Aerotech website for discussions at the aero-engineer level on tail design. Visit the "Ask J&D" section of www.djaerotech.com, and you'll find a whole subset of questions and answers specific to V-tail design.

r/
Dave
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Old Feb 05, 2007, 05:21 PM
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Thanks for the link, and all the comments on tail choice. Since the Dragonfly is available with both I thought all would benefit from my question.
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Old Feb 05, 2007, 09:43 PM
Will fly for food
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Bellevue WA,
Joined Dec 2003
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<Oddly enough, with the ailerons drooped a bit, she seems to float better than with them reflexed. I tried it both ways and I believe I had better control with them down 15 degrees when in 75 degrees of flap.>

I found the same thing with my new Xperience. It floated nicely but I'm not convinced it is best for spot landing control. I may be wrong

This will require some field testing.
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Old Feb 05, 2007, 11:48 PM
Hot Dawg Glider Pilot
schrederman's Avatar
United States, TX, Weatherford
Joined Nov 2002
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David,

The reason I tried it is that on my full-size sailplane, which has 90-degree flaps only, and no spoilers, the ailerons follow the flaps from -8 (reflexed0 to +15 degrees and stay there until the flaps come back up past that point. The control I have is teriffic. I found I had better control of the Dragonfly too, but maybe the full-scale experience rubs off some there. With the flaps down that hard, the nose has to be pushed over a lot so the outboard sections of the wing are at negative angles of attack. Drooping the ailerons adds that lost lift back to the equation and I believe I can fly it slower that way, and still maintain control. Your mileage may vary, of course... My PIK20-B in a low-energy landing touches down at about 38 knots up here at 3600 MSL. At Houston, where I was at 300 MSL, it was slower, yet... nice for those short fields when you didn't make it back to the airport...

One other thing about the Dragonfly is the flap chord is large. With a larger flap chord, the actual angle of attack of the airfoil is changed more drastically at full flap than with a smaller flap chord. That means dropping the nose even more to maintain airspeed. That also means that this method will have different degrees of effect from design to design, depending on airfoil and flap/aileron chord. Just food for thought...

Jack
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