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Old Nov 27, 2006, 03:30 AM
Me likes Depron...
Pjotrrr's Avatar
Amsterdam Schiphol, Netherlands
Joined Mar 2003
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Very interesting design, I'm looking forward to build one of my own...
A negative V-Tail (with double elvator) would probably work fine too and will add a more 'scale' appearance.
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Old Nov 27, 2006, 08:04 AM
High Altitude Flyer
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Fairplay, South Park, CO
Joined Sep 2005
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pjotrrr,

An inverted V-tail could certainly be tried; I look forward to seeing how yours comes out!

A 48" span might be large enough when working with BlueCor, etc. Both of my SOARBIRDS are larger & very light on the wing loading. I was flying a 3S 1500 LiPoly battery pack in the gusty wind conditions yesterday; my impression is that the slightly heavier wing loading will actually handle better in gusty wind conditions.

I'll build out a new tail structure for the 61" wing next... I may actually end up doing an entirely new body& tail while I'm at it, so the inverted V-tail may very well be tried in the process. Building in about 4 degrees down-thrust in the motor mount is desirable, and having roughly 2-1/2 degrees of positive wing incidence relative to the tail is also desirable. From there, having the spoileron reflex programmable & switchable in flight offers the rest of the setup / trim variability that allows for clean efficient glide.

VIKING
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Old Nov 28, 2006, 06:56 AM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
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United States, LA, New Orleans
Joined Jul 2002
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What about using a tail like on the real thing .... you could glue one servo arm to the side of another servo and attach the tail to that arm, and the tail would rotate sideways and Up and down..sorta' like the RC ornithopters do ... crumbs for thought ???
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Old Nov 28, 2006, 07:50 AM
High Altitude Flyer
viking60's Avatar
Fairplay, South Park, CO
Joined Sep 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpw
What about using a tail like on the real thing .... you could glue one servo arm to the side of another servo and attach the tail to that arm, and the tail would rotate sideways and Up and down..sorta' like the RC ornithopters do ... crumbs for thought ???
GPW,

It's food for thought... Soarbird really does not need any 'rudder' control, only the vertical stabilization area, and the elevator for pitch control, independent of the wing tip reflexing in power-on versus power-off flight modes.

Having a full flying tail mounted directly to the servos would put all of the flight loads- & especially landing loads- directly on the servo's gear train... without using larger / heavier servos with full metal gears, Murphy says we would likely get to replace servo gears often while flying in the real world's sometimes less than 'groomed' landing zones...

If anyone else does build a variant on a tail for this wing style, let us know how it works!

VIKING
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Old Dec 04, 2006, 11:06 AM
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Fairplay, South Park, CO
Joined Sep 2005
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Micro Servos may not be robust enough for SOARBIRD II's extended wing tip design

Wing tip Ailerons are very 'exposed' on the SOARBIRD prototypes; less than perfect landings- especially when flying slope winds with rocky landing areas- can put a LOT of stress loads on the gear trains of micro servos. I've now had to replace gears in three of the Bluebird BM308 micro servos over the last three weeks while flying SOARBIRD II at various flying sites... the itty bitty teeth on the smaller gears in these servos are possibly not robust enough for this job....

This brings me to consider building a more robust SOARBIRD III prototype, using larger aileron servos with more robust gears; I also may redesign the wing tips with a fixed tip section, to protect the movable portion & it's servo located just inboard of it.

SOARBIRD II did handle well in ~10 to 12 MPH winds on a small slope recently. The ability to control the wing tip reflex is really showing it's value in slope flying conditions, as well as in thermal cruising efficiency. (I really haven't been out in decent thermal conditions lately, however, so that aspect will be tested when conditions allow.)

More Soon!

VIKING
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Old Dec 07, 2006, 11:34 AM
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Fairplay, South Park, CO
Joined Sep 2005
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New wing in the works

SOARBIRD has a new wing designed & cut out, ready for assembly. I've reduced the span to fit each half across the narrower dimension of a sheet of Fan Fold Foam, (I'm using double faced BlueCor), so two sets of wings can be cut from a single sheet of this material. In dodging the folds, the wingspan ends up at about 47".

One of the other key changes I'm also retro-fitting to my other wings: There is a single fixed 'feather' at the wing tip extending past the end of the aileron panel now, to protect the aileron servo from damage during landings in rough conditions. This should offer the possibility of long servo life using light inexpensive plastic geared servos.

(On the previously finished wing, I simply cut away the tip feather from the aileron, and am mounting it solidly in place to the main body of the wing.)

Carbon Fiber rods (or bamboo rods?) will be added to the edges of these wingtip fixed 'feather' extensions, to be sure they can hold up to the possible loads in rough-field landings. (A strip of the Scotch 'extreme' cross-filament tape may also overlay the outside edge for increased durability.)

The root chord of the new 47" wing matches SOARBIRD II's root chord dimensions right now; that will make it quick & easy to test fly this new wing on the SOARBIRD II body very soon.

After further test flying, I may be ready to finalize the SOARBIRD body template / plan for a third prototype version body design. SOARBIRD's third prototype body will totally enclose the flight battery, servos, and receiver. It's top surface will likely be contoured to closely match the undercambered wing's underside profile, to further minimize drag while supporting the shape of the wing.

This design is progressing nicely and is already flying very well, and the third generation will implement all of the details. (Photos will be posted soon.)

VIKING
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Old Dec 07, 2006, 12:26 PM
INDORUS EXPARAMINTO
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Springfield, Missouri, United States
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Looking forward to it.

Larry
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Old Dec 07, 2006, 02:30 PM
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Fairplay, South Park, CO
Joined Sep 2005
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Wing tip modifications; 47" wing template / plan

Friends,

Here's two new photos; the first is of the wing tip modification I did to the 53" span wing on SOARBIRD II. The cutting template for the new 47" wing is also shown on a 1" grid cutting mat background for scale.

More Later!

VIKING
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Old Dec 08, 2006, 12:12 AM
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Fairplay, South Park, CO
Joined Sep 2005
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SOARBIRD Fuselage / body & tailgroup layout

Here are photos of the latest Fuselage / body and tailgroup member templates.

The tail incidence is zero incidence; the wing is set at +3 degrees relative to it. The motor mount should be installed for minus 5 degrees (downthrust) relative to the tail incidence.

VIKING
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Old Dec 08, 2006, 05:06 AM
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Niagara Falls/Toronto area
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Bruce: It looks like you might be ready to release your plans *hint hint*

Brad
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Old Dec 08, 2006, 10:52 AM
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Fairplay, South Park, CO
Joined Sep 2005
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Brad,

Thanks for your interest & support!

I'm a bit of a dinosaur when it comes to 'plans- like GPW, I don't do CAD.... I do pencil drawings sometimes, sometimes work directly on the Bluecor (as I did when laying out the first SOARBIRD's wing.)

The photos of the actual cutting templates, placed on the 1" grid of the cutting mat, may have to serve for a while. Those, combined with all of the other photos, should hopefully serve as enough guidance for most crafty foamie scratch-builders to get a SOARBIRD in the air.

I'll shoot a new photo sequence of the construction of the third generation SOARBIRD as I go, to hopefully 'fill in the gaps' on the build. I'll fill out & update the web page with any new details:

http://www.stenulson.net/rcflight/soarbird.htm

VIKING
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Old Dec 08, 2006, 11:09 AM
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Salt Lake City
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323 Posts
I have been watching this with great interest. Plans would be fantastic for x-mas

Thanks,
/S
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Old Dec 08, 2006, 12:52 PM
kit
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USA
Joined Oct 2001
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SPFD-E-FLYER (Larry) is too modest. He should have posted a link to this thread of his from 4 years ago.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0&page=1&pp=30
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Old Dec 08, 2006, 03:24 PM
INDORUS EXPARAMINTO
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Springfield, Missouri, United States
Joined Jul 2002
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Nay, Viking deserves the credit for all his hard work and tenacity on coming up with a great finished product.
Larry
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Old Dec 08, 2006, 07:01 PM
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Fairplay, South Park, CO
Joined Sep 2005
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Thanks Larry; maybe kit missed it; I did provide a link back to your work in 2002 back in the 11th post on this thread. It was one of the the starting points, along with Tyler McCready's work, which I tested early on in getting to where the SOARBIRD design has evolved over the last five weeks, into the third prototype.

VIKING
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