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Old Oct 25, 2006, 11:44 PM
Knowledge increases life's FOV
Sled Driver's Avatar
Third Stone from the Sun
Joined Nov 2003
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Help!
Request for twisty wing plane span and aspect ratio (or wing area) data

Sleedo's "Twisty wing aspect ratio" thread got me thinking that it would be nice to have a comparison of span to aspect ratio just to see where everthing falls. So, I started the figure attached using data that I had available for the following planes:

Rotor (VS Sailplanes)
Xica (VS Sailplanes)
Xingu (VS Sailplanes)
V-max (VS Sailplanes)
Vector (Brian McLean)
Ultron (Brian Courtice)

If you have data for any wingeron or pitcheron plane not listed above, would you please PM me with the data. Specifically, I need the wing span, and aspect ratio or wing area (I can calculate aspect ratio with wing span and wing area).

As you can see in the attached figure, the relationship of span to aspect ratio for these planes is quite strong. It would be great to get more data for other designs, like the Shrike, Mach-1, Sig Samurai, etc.

Thanks,

Jay Decker
Kennewick, WA
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Last edited by Sled Driver; Oct 27, 2006 at 11:40 AM.
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Old Oct 25, 2006, 11:51 PM
Embrace the suck
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Joined Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sled Driver
As you can see in the attached figure, the relationship of span to aspect ratio for these planes is quite strong.
Makes you wonder what's magic about a 6" mean aero chord

Nauga,
the constant variable
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Old Oct 26, 2006, 12:18 AM
TD- F3K- Slope - What to fly?
Dale Thompson's Avatar
Cupertino CA
Joined Aug 2005
1,515 Posts
Can we add the CR Turbo and Contender?
Sorry I don't have the data but just got the fuse's!
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Old Oct 26, 2006, 02:17 AM
Slope Dog
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The Gorge
Joined Mar 2002
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Where's the Mach1 fall out in this chart? Curious minds want to know.
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Old Oct 26, 2006, 02:42 AM
more casual than stylish....
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Turbo and Contender info sent.
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Old Oct 26, 2006, 08:06 AM
TD- F3K- Slope - What to fly?
Dale Thompson's Avatar
Cupertino CA
Joined Aug 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slopemeno
Turbo and Contender info sent.
Thanks Tony!
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Old Oct 26, 2006, 09:19 AM
Knowledge increases life's FOV
Sled Driver's Avatar
Third Stone from the Sun
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Received data for the following planes:

Mach-1 (Joe Comier)
Dorita Wingeron (Hutch's design)
Sushi Pitcheron (Hutch's design)
Shredder Pitcheron (Mark Grand)
Minnow Pitcheron (Hutch's design)
Snipe (NSP Version)
Orca (Harley Michaelis)
Contender (woody version, CR)
Turbo FG (CR)

Still looking for data on the Shrike, Sig Samurai, Kestrel, and any others...
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Old Oct 26, 2006, 09:41 PM
Knowledge increases life's FOV
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Done...

Thanks to those who provide additional data. Here are the results...
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Last edited by Sled Driver; Oct 27, 2006 at 11:45 AM.
Old Oct 26, 2006, 11:43 PM
Registered User
El Diablo's Avatar
Joined Mar 2006
16 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nauga
Makes you wonder what's magic about a 6" mean aero chord

Nauga,
the constant variable
Isn't 6" the mean aero chord for American men?
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Old Oct 27, 2006, 12:35 AM
TD- F3K- Slope - What to fly?
Dale Thompson's Avatar
Cupertino CA
Joined Aug 2005
1,515 Posts
Jay, Is it time to enlighten us with some insight about the plots?

Is there anything that stands out?
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Old Oct 27, 2006, 10:03 AM
Flounder
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Three turns into Eddie’s High Nowhere
Joined Aug 2006
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Axle (Sailplanes Intl):

- Span: 76"
- A/R: 14.5
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Old Oct 27, 2006, 10:24 AM
Guest
Oceanside
Joined Nov 2002
353 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sled Driver
Thanks to those who provide additional data. Here are the results...

Anyone have a picture of the Xigu? 16-1 AR and 100" span sounds like an extreme machine to be sure!
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Old Oct 27, 2006, 11:34 AM
Knowledge increases life's FOV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sl33pdirt
Anyone have a picture of the Xigu? 16-1 AR and 100" span sounds like an extreme machine to be sure!
The Xingu...
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Last edited by Sled Driver; Oct 27, 2006 at 11:40 AM.
Old Oct 27, 2006, 11:42 AM
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Oceanside
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Ahhh...Xingu. Nice planform and another beauty from VS. You slap on the Eppler wings for your light lift and TD the 6060's tearing up the slope...amazing.

Thanks!
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Old Oct 27, 2006, 02:54 PM
Knowledge increases life's FOV
Sled Driver's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indarotor
Jay, Is it time to enlighten us with some insight about the plots?

Is there anything that stands out?

This exercise was intended to confirm a premise that I have been operating under while developing a new wingeron design that is intended to be the fastest plane on the hill while being very agile… a next step from the Xica and Kestrel, if you will. The result is confirmation that the same basic span and aspect ratio correlation that makes conventional slope airplanes fast and/or agile is applicable to wingeron and pitcheron designs. I’ll spare you a bunch of techno-babble and just say that when you overlay data for conventional slope airplanes, e.g., the Prodij, Viking, Hypnosis, JART, etc., you get a very similar distribution of aspect ratio with span for similar types of airplane performance.

This result might sound like it should be self-evident; however, a number of folks I respect have expressed at least a suspicion that wingeron and pitcheron designs are fundamentally different and have (or should have) a higher aspect ratio for a given span than a conventional slope plane. While wingeron and pitcheron planes tend to be slightly bias toward the higher end of the aspect range for a given span, they are within the conventional slope plane distribution. I think that practical factors such as wingeron drive mechanics and a general experienced pilot preference for higher speed probably drive the slight bias toward the higher end of the aspect ratio range.

Jay Decker
Kennewick, WA
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