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Old Aug 25, 2002, 01:13 PM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2002
4 Posts
need help in my research

Hi
I'm Student in Kerven University in UK
and I'm doing a research in Airplane Field , so my study needs from me to build a R/C Model and study things over it , but before I start my building for the model , I need answers to some questions in that field , so I wish if any can help me and answer my question , or at least gives me the resources that I will find my answers there , and I will add his name to my research as a reference if he help me in anything , my questions is :

1) if I wanna my plain to hold a load of 10kG weight , what it should be :
a) The suitable scale / size for the model to hold that pay load and what it will be the approximate weight of it
b) what is the maximum range of fly for such a model ? can it fly for more than 20 m for example ? and what kind of equipments I need for that to keep control of it ?
c) what is the suitable engine for such kind of plane model ? and what is the maximum speed that it can be fly in ?

2) if I have the total weight of the plane , how I can calculate that minimum speed for it that can keep it fly without go down ?

I will be very thanks if any can help me to find answers on these questions , or at least to give me good resources to find what I want , he will help me altos in my study
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Old Aug 25, 2002, 02:07 PM
Ascended Master
Sparky Paul's Avatar
Palmdale, CA
Joined Oct 2000
13,371 Posts
Re: need help in my research

Quote:
Originally posted by ttagroup
Hi
I'm Student in Kerven University in UK
and I'm doing a research in Airplane Field , so my study needs from me to build a R/C Model and study things over it , but before I start my building for the model , I need answers to some questions in that field , so I wish if any can help me and answer my question , or at least gives me the resources that I will find my answers there , and I will add his name to my research as a reference if he help me in anything , my questions is :

1) if I wanna my plain to hold a load of 10kG weight , what it should be :

.
This is a substantial load.
The plane will be large.
'

a) The suitable scale / size for the model to hold that pay load and what it will be the approximate weight of it

.
Anticipate an airframe weight ready-to-fly, without the payload, of 10 kg.
.

b) what is the maximum range of fly for such a model ? can it fly for more than 20 m for example ? and what kind of equipments I need for that to keep control of it ?

.
Range is limited by the fuel on board. However, control is limited to how far away the plane can be seen. The radio can control the plane after it has flown out of sight. This size plane can probably be controlled at 1/2 mile, possibly a bit further with optical aid.
.

c) what is the suitable engine for such kind of plane model ? and what is the maximum speed that it can be fly in ?

.
A large gas motor.. 25 cc minimum. Max speed, maybe 60 mph.
.

2) if I have the total weight of the plane , how I can calculate that minimum speed for it that can keep it fly without go down ?

.
Yes. But. Flying slowly is dangerous. Stall/crash waits those who fly slowly.
.


I will be very thanks if any can help me to find answers on these questions , or at least to give me good resources to find what I want , he will help me altos in my study
.
This project is beyond your capabilities.
.
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Old Aug 25, 2002, 02:59 PM
Registered User
N. Staffs, UK
Joined Jan 1997
5,654 Posts
Odd, I can't find any reference at all to such a place as Kerven University in the UK. And uni students in this country usually have a slightly better grasp of the language. I wonder who this person really is.

Steve
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Old Aug 25, 2002, 06:38 PM
Ascended Master
Sparky Paul's Avatar
Palmdale, CA
Joined Oct 2000
13,371 Posts
In this post 9/11 era...
The language situation struck me also.
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Old Aug 25, 2002, 11:58 PM
rebmeM roineS
MrBungle's Avatar
Rockingham, Perth - Western Australia
Joined Apr 2001
615 Posts
Re: Re: need help in my research

Quote:
Originally posted by Sparky Paul


b) what is the maximum range of fly for such a model ? can it fly for more than 20 m for example ? and what kind of equipments I need for that to keep control of it ?
.
Range is limited by the fuel on board. However, control is limited to how far away the plane can be seen. The radio can control the plane after it has flown out of sight. This size plane can probably be controlled at 1/2 mile, possibly a bit further with optical aid.


The model(?) could be controlled by a following car, thus making its effective range much greater, then it is truly limited by its fuel storage capacity. This has been done quite a few times in long distance record attempts in Australia, its even been done from a boat in a successful long distance over-water record attempt between Fremantle and Rottnest island in Western Australia some years ago.


Is it possible that 'Kerven' was a typo considering the language barrier? There are quite a few foreigners studying in Australian universities, I would assume it is a similar case in the UK?.

Maybe 'ttagroup' could mean 'Turnban'd Terrorists Attack group'?
Tho I doubt it very much.
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Last edited by MrBungle; Aug 26, 2002 at 12:08 AM.
Old Aug 26, 2002, 07:38 AM
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Joined Aug 2002
4 Posts
Well Guys nice to hear from you about 9/11

Actually yes , I'm not a British guy , I'm from Turkia , and study in UK , well , I don't know that 9/11 still scare you that much , and exist in front of your eyes what ever you go ...

any way , it is not our subject , actually why I ask about the maximum distance that can a plain arrive , because one of our study phases to fix a camera on the model that will direct it to land safely in the other side , so if I will use that Radio , what is the maximum range for it ? same for the fuel ?

Sparky Paul , thanks for your answers but , that 10KG is the equipments weight that will be on the model (GPS , Camera , ... ) , so can u tell me where I can find model to hold that weight , and what is the size of it , it should be ?
and how I can calculate the minimum speed that the plain should be in to not Stall/crash ?

MrBungle , I like your ttagroup meaning , keep it up man , and thanks for the information , can you provide me with more about that experiment ?

steve lewin , man dont worry , I'm not bin laden , and I hate that guy more than what u do .

Guys , I want you to understand one thing here , I'm not here for fun , it is study that it will be part of my research , so if some one want help , I will be very thanks for him/her , but no need to start imagine things always as 9/11 , that is really a Joke , and make me lol ....
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Last edited by ttagroup; Aug 26, 2002 at 07:42 AM.
Old Aug 26, 2002, 09:17 AM
rebmeM roineS
MrBungle's Avatar
Rockingham, Perth - Western Australia
Joined Apr 2001
615 Posts
ttagroup,

Sorry I have no real usefull details about those record attempts as they happened in the 1980's and the magazines
that featured the stories are either lost or thrown away in the rubbish.

The only information I can find is a referance to another world long distance record set in Australia on May 18th 1994, where a model aircraft flew 493km(306 miles) non-stop(no landing, no re-fueling). The plane was piloted from a car, it had a 7 foot wingspan and weight of 6.5lbs (3kg) using an O.S. Max-46SF engine (7.5cc) swinging a 14x8 propellor at 4,800rpm and using Hitec radio gear (there ya go Mike@Hitec!!), which is no where near big enough to carry your 10kg payload.

Sorry I couldn't be any more help than this, but it shows that VERY long distances can be covered with these planes and a pilot following the plane in a car etc.

Oh, There was no information on the amount of fuel needed or the size of the fueltank.
Oh #2, The Fremantle to Rottnest island flight was 19km (12miles) and lasted appox. 35mins, obviously the limiting factor here was the speed of the boat carrying the pilot as there were 2meter (7 foot) sea's at the time!
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Last edited by MrBungle; Aug 26, 2002 at 09:31 AM.
Old Aug 26, 2002, 10:16 AM
Balsa Flies Better!
Stamford, CT
Joined Oct 2000
6,706 Posts
Try Just Engines and UC Davis

At UC Davis, there is an aeronautical engineering department that takes students along with faculty and designs airplanes to compete in load carrying contests similar to what you've described. There have also been articles published in Model Aviation on these events- contact the AMA library.

Also in the UK, there is a shop called Just Engines where they are very knowledgable about engines and have helped modelers compete in duration events.

Sam
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Old Aug 26, 2002, 10:17 AM
Senior Moment Member
Virginia Beach, Va.
Joined Jan 2002
1,233 Posts
Sorry ttagroup, but your post is very suspect. Yes 9/11 is still with us, it's not in front of our eyes all the time as you say, but it is always in the back of our mind. There have been additional attempts since 9/11 and we all know there will be more, it's not over yet. We quickly become suspicious of anything that doesn't fit in with the norm.

The request for info from someone with no experience, on building a plane that will carry 10kg, how big it will be, and how far it will fly raises a lot of red flags, regardless of your stated intentions. Add to that the post from Steve that the University you claim to attend doesn't exist and, well........ I don't know about everyone else but at this point it just looks too much like a potential weapon to me.

Jimmy
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Old Aug 26, 2002, 11:04 AM
Registered User
N. Staffs, UK
Joined Jan 1997
5,654 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by ttagroup
steve lewin , man dont worry , I'm not bin laden , and I hate that guy more than what u do .
I didn't think you were Bin Laden, just a troll making poor jokes.

If I'm wrong just just let us know your name, where in the UK you are studying and what course you are taking and I'm sure we'll be glad to help. Since there is an annual challenge in the UK to build a load carrying plane you should be able to get in touch with the other universities who already do this sort of thing through your college contacts. None of them managed 10Kg this year but the rules restrict their engine size.

Steve
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Old Aug 26, 2002, 11:24 AM
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member73's Avatar
Wakefield, MA
Joined Feb 2001
769 Posts
Glad I'm not the only one who found this post suspect. Its sad that we now think like this, but its our new reality. The fact that our friend says he is an Aero student but does not know how to calculate stall speed is somewhat surprising to say the least. I did the AMA competition in school and without any resources like this. Part of me really wants to help out, yet two thoughts prevent me 1) as mentioned, looks suspect 2) if he is indeed an aerostudent, these are basic questions that he should be able to answer for himself by simply cracking open a text book and some R/C literature (such as hp of 40 and 60 sized engines).

I usually give people the benifit of the doubt and am about the furthest this from a conspiracy theorist, but my spidey senses are off the charts on this one.
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Old Aug 26, 2002, 12:05 PM
ὅπερ ἔδει δεῖξαι
Gerald's Avatar
Joined May 2000
3,335 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by ttagroup
...

Sparky Paul , thanks for your answers but , that 10KG is the equipments weight that will be on the model (GPS , Camera , ... ) , so can u tell me where I can find model to hold that weight , and what is the size of it , it should be ?
and how I can calculate the minimum speed that the plain should be in to not Stall/crash ?...
A GPS and camera can be added for only a few ounces in weight. So what is the remaining 10KG payload?
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Old Aug 27, 2002, 06:48 AM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2002
4 Posts
Guys
First of all who told u that I'm Aero student , I'm a CS Student in Kele University that we call it kerfan (for the guys who ask about the University)

Gerald , well GPS , Camera weight is 4.7 KG and the rest of equipments is for GIS and Control Unit , we are doing kind of A/I system on plains , may be it is new on people that deal with models for fun only , any way it is not my subject now

well , good to hear that there are competition in that fields in UK , any more information about that ?
I just wanna say it again , who wanna help again , he will be very thanks , we are students that do something useful not playing around , and we will find what we need , it is not that much difficult . I deal with all ppl here in respect , I like your hobby , and I expect the guys in that hobby are open mind . for that I put my post here , but it seems I was mistaken

Thanks Again for all guys who help (Sparky Paul , MrBungle , Megowcoupe , ...) and for guys who half of them wanna help , don't worry I appreciate it , and for the rest of guys , really nice to know you and how you live after 9/11 , but thanks any more

my e-mails is : ttagroup@postmaster.co.uk , for ppl who wanna keep in contact

John
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Old Aug 27, 2002, 08:18 AM
Balsa Flies Better!
Stamford, CT
Joined Oct 2000
6,706 Posts
Include me out...

In hindsight, I wish I'd never responded to this post in the first place.

John,- if you really are interested in soliciting help from others, a more forthright and informative approach would be called for. It also wouldn't hurt to take more time on your posts or get someone with a better command of the language to help.

Sam
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Old Aug 27, 2002, 12:35 PM
Registered User
N. Staffs, UK
Joined Jan 1997
5,654 Posts
And guess what, there's no UK university called Kele either (and if there was why would you call it Kerfan ?). Also the university term doesn't start for several weeks yet. And that email address is a freebie webmail site (a bit like Hotmail).

I don't know what this person is playing at but he's certainly not being anything like straight with us. I'm having nothing to do with him.

Steve
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