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Old Sep 27, 2006, 05:26 PM
Oleg Golovidov
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Raleigh, NC, USA
Joined Sep 2004
2,293 Posts
Careful!
Open Letter to Dymond Modelsports

Dear Mr. Helmut Goestl,
after the phone conversation with you today I felt obligated to send you a note and try to mitigate the situation in some way. Though I understand your frustration with my request to replace a faulty servo, I was a little shocked to hear your accusations that I found a way to abuse and break the [D60] servos and now I keep demanding a replacement! I was even more shocked to hear that you "will not sell me any more servos"!

I would like to explain the situation, since I did not have a chance to do so on the phone. First, I must explain that I build and sell RC hand launch gliders ( http://olgol.com/TabooGT ). For many of my customers, I purchase your servos and install them in their models ( see http://olgol.com/TabooGT/ordering.html ). I also recommend your servos to all my customers who build their models themselves. If you check your records, you may find that I often buy servos from you in large quantities (large for me at least, 10-20 at a time). In fact, before calling your office with the servo problem request, I placed an on-line order for 14 servos and other miscellaneous stuff. I am not sure what to do with the order now, since you said that I am banned from buying your servos.

The servo [D60] that I was asking to replace has not been used or installed in any model yet. Before installing it into a customer's model, I checked the servo by plugging it into a receiver and moving the control sticks. This particular servo moved at a speed about 4-5 times slower than all other servos. It obviously was defective and I could not have done any harm to it, I simply did not have a chance to do it yet.

I realize that your frustration stems from the fact that my name had already been put on your "black list" of servo abusers, because one of my customers, Kai Yang, contacted you with a request to replace 2 faulty D60 servos a few weeks ago. I advised him to call you directly and explain that he received the servos from me, which I assume he did, since you had both of our names on the black list. I realize that I am partially guilty in this situation, since I did not call you myself and I have not seen Kai's servos to confirm that they were not in fact abused. But I also do not have reason to doubt Kai's statements, since I installed the servos myself into his model, and the linkages were done to the same standards as on many dozens of my previously built and flown models.

I hope that you can understand me and will agree that I am not trying to exploit your company by breaking the servos and demanding a replacement. I still plan to send the defective servo to you since I have no use for it, and it will give you a chance to examine it and prove to yourself that, although very rare, there is still a chance of getting a defective D60 servo.

I hope we can come to a mutual agreement on this issue and you withdraw your accusations and your ban. I would still like to continue using and offering your servos to my customers or at least to have an option to do so.

Best regards,
Oleg Golovidov.

PS. I am going to place this open letter to you on the RCGroups.com http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=21 forums to bring this incident to other people's attention
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 08:40 PM
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Fountain Valley, California
Joined Feb 2004
10,768 Posts
Very well written Oleg.

I wish you the best of luck in resolving your issue.

Will
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Old Sep 28, 2006, 09:41 AM
Oleg Golovidov
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Raleigh, NC, USA
Joined Sep 2004
2,293 Posts
Reply From Dymond

Dear Mr. Oleg Golovidov,
We appreciate receiving the defective servo back for inspection. The reason
for our reaction was that we sell many thousand of these servos world wide
and have an excellent reputation and very very few returns.
We know that some pilots use a lot of mixing, especially aileron and flap
mixing, which can exceed the limitations of a normal servo throw. If mixed
to 120 or higher percent flaps with ailerons together, the servo will stall
and can ruin the amplifier or the motor.
We had this happen before and this is not warranty. Or if the flaps hit the
ground or need too much power in the end positions the servo can also be
overloaded.
I bet you cannot tell whether your customers program their radios beyond the
limitations.
We know that our servos are good and have a long lifespan if used properly
and reasonably.
If we have an unusual high complaint or return rate it is usually due to
overstress of a servo in a certain application.
The D 60 have been used as aileron servos in the airplane of the current F5B
world champion and the servos worked to his satisfaction.
I would appreciate if you would also consider other reasons for failure not
just warranty claim and bad manufacturing.
Helmut Goestl
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Old Sep 28, 2006, 10:47 AM
Ship first, Improve often
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Virginia
Joined Apr 2005
5,008 Posts
Wow, that is totally crazy. He should be going out of his way to help you yet you get a response like that. Looks like I would find a different vendor to deal with.
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Old Sep 28, 2006, 10:51 AM
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Fountain Valley, California
Joined Feb 2004
10,768 Posts
Quote:
The servo [D60] that I was asking to replace has not been used or installed in any model yet. Before installing it into a customer's model, I checked the servo by plugging it into a receiver and moving the control sticks. This particular servo moved at a speed about 4-5 times slower than all other servos. It obviously was defective and I could not have done any harm to it, I simply did not have a chance to do it yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by olgol
I would appreciate if you would also consider other reasons for failure not
just warranty claim and bad manufacturing.
Helmut Goestl
It's as though he had not listened to what you said.

Word gets around fast.

Will
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Old Sep 28, 2006, 11:28 AM
W0X0F
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United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Nov 2005
1,003 Posts
I guess if you get a bad dymond servo then your up creek. No more dymonds for me.

Walt
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Old Sep 28, 2006, 12:32 PM
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Tsquare's Avatar
Cedar Falls Ia
Joined Jun 2005
725 Posts
After reading that response I won't be buying any Dymond products. Too many other excellent options out there to buy from.
Gene
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Old Sep 28, 2006, 12:39 PM
wishes this caption was longe
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wilson, nc, usa
Joined Dec 2005
2,214 Posts
Holy crap, Oleg! You've got to be one of his better customers, it's ridiculous to be treated like that.

To everyone else, Oleg is a big fan of the Dymonds and he recommends them often. So much so that EVERY DLG pilot at our club uses them. On any given Sunday there are dozen's of Dymond servos on the field.

This gives Dymond a serious black eye, all for a $19.95 servo.

http://www.isthmusmodels.com/index.php?cPath=22_32_63 is Mark Miller's website. The super micro servo is the same as a D-60 and the x-micro servo is the same as the D-47.

Will

edit-this is a double post, sorry but I wanted to provide Marks' website info in both threads
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Old Sep 28, 2006, 12:51 PM
db1
don betz
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United States, OH, Cincinnati
Joined Aug 2004
571 Posts
No doubt I will be buying from Mark in the future!

db
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Old Sep 28, 2006, 01:04 PM
Confirmed Chronic
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Pacific Palisades, CA
Joined Jul 2004
9,225 Posts
I had a dead D47 on the bench right out of the box. Knowing Dymond's reputation for dealing with returns (poor) and the re-stocking fee (15%) I didn't both trying to return it.

I recently had to buy more d47s (plane was already cut for them) and cringed before clicking "order."

There is no excuse for an attitude like this when there are so many other great products out there.
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Old Sep 28, 2006, 02:39 PM
Thermal Seeker
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Long Island, NY
Joined Sep 2005
176 Posts
Sorry to hear about that Oleg,
I doubt that servo you sent back will ever get inspected let alone looked at.
I had a simillar issue with a bad servo from them, but you can't help not to love those little strong thin servos.
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Old Sep 28, 2006, 03:10 PM
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Chicago IL
Joined Apr 2004
924 Posts
I'm sure it is just a matter of time before many DLG, HLG, and F5X fliers read this and think twice about ordering from them. I personally will not be ordering them and will end up ordering from JR or another respectable dealer. I know Oleg buys a lot of servos from them and recomends them to all his customers. It will be interesting to see Dymonds response once sales drop off...

Jeff
Who will be buying 241's instead
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Old Sep 28, 2006, 04:18 PM
My other TX is a P4000.
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USA, VA, Raphine
Joined Sep 2002
2,254 Posts
With an attitude like this - what better way for a vendor to cut their own throats?

Helmut is not working for NSP now, is he?

-joedy
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Old Sep 28, 2006, 04:37 PM
Electric Hippy
Brisbane
Joined Nov 2005
2,361 Posts
I was considering trying some dymonds, but not now.
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Old Sep 28, 2006, 06:13 PM
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London
Joined Apr 2004
727 Posts
I'm shocked and stunned and feel strongly discouraged from buying dymond products again.

I live in the UK but have bought servos from Helmut in the past via web, phone and when I visited the shop during Poway '05 (where I was surprised not to see Dymond representing themselves). I have always had good service from Helmut, starting from when I got my first DLG, a Taboo XL. Of course Oleg recommended D60s and since I couldn't find any in the UK at the time, I ordered them from Dymond. After installing them in my wing, I realised one of them was faulty with a serious centering problem. I emailed Helmut explaining the problem including that I had cut and soldered the servo lead in order to install it.

He replied that it was no problem, just send the servo back and if it's faulty, I'll get a replacement. I was very pleased with that level of service and trust with a 1st time customer across the pond. In the end I didn't send it back as I found a local supplier of the SD150 (Ripmax version of the D60) and decided it wasn't really worth the effort and postage costs. I was impressed with his helpfulness and have also recommended his servos.

I was also impressed when visited the shop and gave me a couple of gear sets for the D60 and D4.7. But I can't understand why he would want to treat a customer that way, especially someone like Oleg, from a personal and business perspective. I think the least Helmut could do at this point is apologize and acknowledge his error and replace the servo.

In the UK we can buy D60 and D4.7 as the Ripmax SD150 and SD100 respectively. Also the D60 can be bought as the Protec B109.

Mike
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