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Old Sep 16, 2006, 01:19 PM
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scrubs's Avatar
Rio Rancho NM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PETERRAKE
Chris,
Time now to start dropping heavy hints about gifts of balsa bundles, motors, batteries, etc. I try it every year but still end up with socks.
Get that fairing in place and it will really start to look great. You're doing a good job of the build, and keeping me on my toes with your queries. Between us, you're going to end up with a very pretty little model. That's the great thing about these forums, if one person can't help, there's always someone who can.

Pete
Wrong way to do it Pete. Every year my wife & I have a deal. She just says order what you want & then she hides it till xmas. I tell here I'm doing her a favor because she doesn't have to fight the hollidaycrowds. Surprised every year too.
bill
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Old Sep 16, 2006, 06:44 PM
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65Chevelle's Avatar
Long Island
Joined Jul 2006
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Okay, here's my attempt at the fairing using sheet balsa ,1/16", and the top edges built up with 1/8".
With a bit of filler I think I can live with it. The profile looks good.
Chris
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Old Sep 17, 2006, 10:48 AM
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better late than miss it

Very nice job coming together nicely and trust me we all start somewhere.

I've built and flown quite a number of designs by Peter and can never get over how the build sequence is so well suited for beginner and expert alike, couple this with how well they fly with little or no trim adjustment.

Another good thing is how the build techniques stay fairly constant, the complicated sections are simplyfied by Pete for us mere mortals. Oh, how I miss it all, still maybe next year I could be back to it.

Pete does have one fault though his taste in beer is lousy!

Hey Charlie I'm trying to catch up on real life, how are you sir?

best wishes
John
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Old Sep 17, 2006, 04:09 PM
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John,

My oh my. You actually have enough time to get back in on Ezone??!! Very cool. Business must be OK then.

Send me an email so I have your current one. Have a lot to catch up on. I'll hoist a scotch to you tonight!

Chris,

You've probably got past this point by now, but, I like to use pink or blue foam for carved parts. Two reasons, very light, and the dust doesn't get to me like balsa dust can. Just remember to paint it before covering or the color of the foam will show through.

charlie
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Old Sep 17, 2006, 06:38 PM
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65Chevelle's Avatar
Long Island
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Charlie: Thanks for the tip. Have to remember that one.

Now with todays build. I had to stop and walk away today. Very frustrated at the moment.
I attempted to cover the tail surfaces with litespan. To make a long story short, I have to make new elevators. The long curved side of the elevator is my problem. When shrinking the litespan, this curved laminated balsa section deformed. It pulled in as I shrunk the covering. I was able to remove the covering and try again but it did the same thing. Tried to removed the covering one more time and trashed one side of elevator. The other one is okay, with just a little sagging along this curved piece. Not perfect but acceptable.

Pete: Did you have any difficulties covering the larger version?
It's probably just me. Maybe I should have used good old tissue and dope. I think I would have less problems.
I'm considering making a thicker lamination so there is no deformation. UGH.
I think my laminating skills did me in. Maybe I just need to practice laminating.
Chris
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Old Sep 17, 2006, 07:09 PM
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Litespan is definitely an acquired taste. I tried it some years back and ditched it - could not get it wrinkle free without nerfing the structure.

But lately its been great..I just learnt a few tricks.

1/. Don't pull it too hard. Just easy out HUGE wrinkles with the iron on a moderately hot setting. You can gently iron out wrinkles at the frame edges by heating and pushing with the iron., I tend to stroke the iron away from the center towards the frame edge.

2/. Use max heat on the iron to shronk it..and keep going over till its right. There is only limited shrinkage there, but its 2 stage. Hot iron shrinks it a certain amount, stinking hot iron shrinks it a lot more. I use temps that would put holes in plastic films.

3/. Don't expect the impossible. If a wingtip is really compound curve, use a separate bit to cover it first, and accept a small seam line.
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Old Sep 17, 2006, 08:53 PM
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I don't think it was the litespan, more my inexperience and covering a lightweight taile section. The tail/rudder came out fine.
I'm currently re-making two sets of elevators. One I will make again per plan and the other I will modify with additional stringers just in case my lamination isn't strong enough to take the shrinking again.
We'll see how it goes.
Chris
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Old Sep 18, 2006, 02:45 AM
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Norfolk, England
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Chris,
On a structure this light, I would recommend that you apply the Litespan as Vinto suggests - drawing the iron outwards over the frame - to get a wrinkle free surface, but don't shrink it. As long as you have a reasonably smooth covering job, it doesn't need to be drum tight.
Theoretically, because of the glue, your laminated parts should be stronger that just strip balsa. However, you do need to ensure that the laminations are securely stuck together. Even a little delamination will severely weaken the structure.

Pete
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Old Sep 18, 2006, 04:30 AM
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Also using punk grade balsa for framing is ALWAYS a mistake..one I learnt early in building Peters models.

I had similar problems with my micro camel. Ended up with a slightly smaller bit of obeche...by the time I had sanded to within a micron of its life, it wasn't any heavier either.
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Old Sep 18, 2006, 04:45 AM
North East England
Joined Feb 2004
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Chris

Not the first time I've binned a tail due to ruining the covering stage. I too am learning to 'tolerate' Litespan (don't think I'll ever love the stuff). I've also had problems with tails made from 3/32" balsa warping, until I learned the trick of tacking down the Litespan so the covering was fairly taut before shrinking, then just using the 'hot heat', as Vintage describes it, to get it slightly tighter.

Put the tail down flat on the board and draw the iron over it, but hold the tail down for a few seconds afterwards until the covering cools - seems to help it keep it's shape. Also prick a pin hole into the covering somewhere so that the expanding hot air inside will have somewhere to escape to, or else the covering can 'balloon' up.

By the bye, I've just been covering my vintage IPS fuselage to while away the time and this is the first time I've used blue Litespan - seemed to go on a lot easier than the other colours, or maybe it's all in the mind!

Steve
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Old Sep 18, 2006, 06:34 AM
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Long Island
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Thanks for the tips guys!
I hate loose covering and wrinkles. I probably overdid the shrinking trying to get them all out. I did come across some bubbling of the glue, the pin hole is a good idea, Thanks Steve.
I'll get this right sooner or later.
vintage1: As for the balsa type, yep, I used light balsa. I need to recut some heavier strips tonight and try again. With the cad plans its real easy to just print out this section on 8 1/2 x 11" at home and cut away. Love it. I think I'm spoiled now.
Pete: The lamination is fine, just very weak. As vintage said, I think it was the wood I chose. I'll try not to shink the litespan, but I don't think I can hold myself back. This is all a learning process for me. Thanks again.
Chris
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Old Sep 18, 2006, 08:13 AM
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I only use lite balsa in slab structure, fuse sides, ribs, formers, etc. Anytime I am using sticks the harder stuff comes out, longerons, tail structure, stringers, etc.

When I laminate I always use a layer of 1/64th ply on the inside, then two 1/16 lams of balsa, or 3-4 1/32 layers. You can also use a layer of CF tow in between balsa lams.

I love Litespan/Solite/Microlite. I just wish it came in more colors and that the white and yellow were more opaque.

Remember that the early planes had covering that were usually loose. Lots of wrinkles.

charlie
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Old Sep 18, 2006, 05:22 PM
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Long Island
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Charlie: I'm trying the 1/64th ply. I like that idea. I also see that its much harder to get the heavier balsa to bend than the light balsa I used before. And what a bend I need on this bird.
So far, I think this attempt looks a lot better.
I may even build a new stabilizer as I used light weight balsa for that too. I was trying to heed Pete's advice to keep the tail section light, I just went a little too light. Again, I'm learning more and more as I go.
I was so determined to get this done right after work, I haven't even open my delivery from BP Hobbies that arrived today.
Now that its drying....where is that package?? I should have all my servos, reciever and esc now. What else did I order, hmmm.
Thanks all, Chris
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Old Sep 18, 2006, 06:34 PM
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Norfolk, England
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Chris,
One advantage with these small models, they're easier to balance. Your IPS won't be too much lighter than the little BL motor I used in my Nieuport - about 1 oz. Add to that the fact that your servos and receiver will probably weigh about the same as mine did, but you have an awful lot less model to balance. I guess what I should have said was to keep the tail as light as strength will allow, but that doesn't make much sense unless you're already familiar with the requirements of these models. I NEVER use very soft wood in my models. Longerons and spars are as hard as I can get, and still use balsa, while everything else is medium grade.
Twice now, I've dumped the bigger Nieuport on its' nose from 20+ feet up. Both times I expected to find a mangled fuselage - but didn't. A broken prop, but an intact fuselage. Using soft longerons, a broken prop would be the least of my worries.

Pete
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Old Sep 18, 2006, 07:02 PM
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65Chevelle's Avatar
Long Island
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I hear you Pete, just my inexperience with choosing balsa.
I used heavy balsa on the longerons. What I am concerned with is the nose section of the fuse and the cut outs for the cylinders. Not much balsa there, but the false crankcase should protect the prop from contacting it on an impact.
Here are some pics of what I've been writing about.
Still haven't opened my package.
Chris
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