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Old Aug 24, 2006, 05:49 PM
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Help me with my first gas heli.

Im looking at purchasing a gas heli, right now I fly the blade cp and am pretty good with it I also have been flying planes for the last 5 yrs. I would like to get a gas one. I found one on ebay that someone localy is selling:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...%3AUS%3A1&rd=1

What do you think it is worth, he wants $370 if I pick it up localy, should I go for it? Is this something that is too advanced. Ive been flying my first heli for just over 8 months now and can fly it fine basicly everything but inverted.
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Old Aug 24, 2006, 05:56 PM
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That heli is an old Schlueter Magic (about 15 years old) - It was a good heli in its day, but I do not think that you can even get parts for them now.

NOTE: in his description he makes it quite clear that it is NOT for beginners and I agree.

But the Radio is very useable and the gyro MAY be.

I think your money would be better spent on a used 30 size like a Hawk IV/Sport or Pro, or a Rappy 30V2 (not V1).
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Old Aug 25, 2006, 03:04 AM
Ade
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what is your other heli?

that is a very very old heli. Unless you have the ability to make your own parts i would leave well alone. The rest of the gear with it is equally old and may not be reliable.

Hawks are junk.

Ade
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Old Aug 25, 2006, 10:40 PM
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Ade,

I am not interested in getting into Pi%$%#ing match over your comment on the Hawk.

But this summer a number of them where flown in a number of events I attended doing some very extreme 3D by some quality pilots (most that were used to big block 90 helis) and proved to impress them a lot.

With the new high power OS37's and Toki 40's they can really turn it one and seem to last forever.

Two in question had over 200 flight with no maintenance, just pushed hard and put away wet.

IMHO, that says a lot of such a low cost heli.
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Old Aug 26, 2006, 01:29 AM
Ade
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I am merely trying to put the balance back into the conversation. We have had this little chat a number of times and theres no real need to go into why i think the hawk is crap again. If anybody reading this is interested do a search theres plenty of info!

tell me something, were these hawks standard? any upgrade parts on them maybe?

the fact these hawks were doing it says more about the pilot than the model i am affraid. The control system copied by the shuttle was evil on that and somehow century have made it worse so the fact they managed it is pretty incredible!

Add to that the Hawk sport tail drive which is dangerous bet these guys werent running stanadard hawk sports?

Ade
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Old Aug 29, 2006, 06:29 PM
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Ade,

Get with the times. The Hawk PRO replaced the Hawk SPORT two years ago.

The heli I am talking about here and have been for the past two years is the HAWK PRO.

For a 200.00 heli it is VERY impressive.

Yes they were standard, but some where using composite blades rather then the stock woodies.
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Last edited by syclic; Aug 29, 2006 at 06:46 PM.
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Old Aug 29, 2006, 08:51 PM
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Sorry but Century and impressive are 2 words that should definately not be used in the same sentence.
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Old Aug 30, 2006, 01:34 AM
Ade
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Quote:
For a 200.00 heli it is VERY impressive.
accept that in the UK you can get a raptor 30 for 180 and plastic knight 50 for under 200.

I have looked at a couple of websites and the hawk sport is still available. The pro has fixed a lot of issues with the sport but the control system is still evil, there is still a lot of slop in the head and the starting method is still a joke.

Ade
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Old Aug 30, 2006, 12:53 PM
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Well Ade, I did not realize that the UK was so far behind North America.

I can't remember the last time I saw the Hawk Sport available on a web site. We have only had Pro's available here in Canada for a long time.

I have noted in the British magazine ads, that the Hawk PRO is available there and that they are only 140 LSTG.

As for the starting system, I guess that is a matter of opinion or a lack of understanding how it works. Many of us love it and find it superior to most others. But it has to be used differently. If one is using a start wand system that does not have a one-way bearing in it, then he should be sure to read the instructions on starting, as they clearly indicate that one must lift the wand out in two steps after the engine starts. Step one is to lift just enough to allow the inner start shaft to disconnect from the fan and once the wand stops turning then Step two is to remove the wand. Simple and easy.

IMHO, it is a superior system because:

a - one does not have to dial indicate any internal start shaft on assembly.

b - the clutch does not have to be aligned to the clutch bell as it automatically does so on installation.

c - unlike many other start shaft designs, the start shaft support bearings on this design last forever. Why? because once the engine starts, the start shaft totally disengages and the start shaft does not continue to turn at the speed of the motor.

d - ditto for the clutch bell support bearings - unlike other designs these also last forever. Why? Because these also stop turning as soon as the clutch engages the clutch bell. Consequently they too are not always turning at the high speed of the motor.

e - all of the above also means the clutches last a long time as in this design, they are automatically aligned to the clutch bell because each is attached directly to the same shaft - the engine's crank shaft.

Slop in the head??? Mine has over 180 flights and the head still has less play in any of its components then other 30's at our field.

Control system - it may be an older configuration but it works very well.

There are many areas of a model helicopter that are important and they all make up the whole. So if the Hawk PRO has a great rotor head that flies very well, that stays slop free for a long time and not does not have any scary issues (like flutter that some others have), I would call that a big plus.

If it has a positive, low drag torque tube tail drive systems that results better auto performance, I would call that a big plus.

If it has a two-stage power system that is smooth and efficient resulting in more power being available for flight , I call that a big plus. And if this system is easy to assemble and get right because it does not require any alignment or dial indicating, I consider that a big plus. If this system is also very low maintenance, again a big plus. Ditto for its' start system.

If the heli comes with bearings everywhere to minimize any slop, again a big plus.

And if it provides all of this at a very lower price then any others, all the better.

Now if it has a control system that does the job even if it is not some new state of the art eCCPM system so what? In the end, it is still a heli that is easy to build, flies very well, is very low maintenance and is very well priced.
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Old Aug 30, 2006, 01:43 PM
Ade
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damn you really have been reading the hype too much. That has to be the most biased and in some cases inaccurate mail about the hawk i have ever read.

well done.

you had better be a century rep. because if your not you damn well should be.

Ade
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Old Aug 30, 2006, 10:43 PM
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Ade,

You stated "That has to be the most biased and in some cases inaccurate mail about the hawk i have ever read."

Please tell me what I said that is not true?
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Old Aug 31, 2006, 04:46 PM
Ade
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your right in someways about the 2 stage setup. it does solve some issues that are suffered by the normally directily supported pinion gear. however i have some concerns.

gear mesh consistancy is reliant on the engine mount and frame structure. This isnt too much of an issue when your just hovering. Your 150 flights is that 150 flights of 3d? My knight has done double that with no appreciable wear in the main gear. Also 2 stage isnt more efficient basic fact of life, You have a second shaft to spin and smaller gears are less efficient that big gears with lots of teeth. I dunno what you class as smooth but theres nothing smooth about the gear train of the hawk.

the main issue with the starting mechanism is the noise. It makes a dreadful racket that you cant hear if the engine is running or not. Nope sorry you either have a oneway in the start shaft or you dont. one or the other.

compare the levels of slop to a standard raptor. the raptor isnt great but it still whips the hawk. Knight leaves them both standing.

the main issue with the mechanical mix the hawk uses is that it relies on the output shafts of the servos to be slop free. On other helis if you have slop in a servo it basically adds expo. On the hawk slop in the aileron output shaft gives an elevator interaction when moving the collective.

Torque tube better for autos? yeh sure if its driven. Which it isnt. Sure you can buy an upgrade but theres not much point. its a 30 you need all the energy you can get at the bottom.

at the end of the day. Its a cheap heli with mechanical mix badly copied from the shuttle and a sloppy head system which makes it inaccurate. Add to this the lack of a 50 upgrade path and your on to one big looser.

hope that clears things up for you. You never did answer my question, are you a century rep?

Ade
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Old Sep 01, 2006, 11:37 AM
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Flight time and wear: Their are a number of Hawks, Ravens and Falcons (powered by powerful 50 Hyper engines) that have been in the air for years at ourlocal fields that have well over 500 flights (one is now over 800) that have never had any gear wear problems of consequence. Andf that is probably because there are more teeth at any given time sharing the load. And no they are not hover pusses - they are pushed pretty hard.

Sorry, but I disagree with you on the slop. The Hawk Pro is fully ball raced and does NOT develop slop any more rapidly then any other heli (Raptor included) that is so equipped. And IMHO, it is better in this area then most, including the Raptor.

Lack of 50 Upgrade path? Where have you been. Many have done so by just adding the motor mount, primary pinion, tail boom and Torque tube from the Raven 50. Most don't bother as the Hawk is so inexpensive, they keep it as a back-up and go directly to the Raven 50.

May I suggest that you check out forums such as :

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/f48p1/

http://www.rotorworks.net/forumdisplay.php?f=17

and you will get a better understanding of what we find great with them. Then go into forums on these same sites for other brands and see the various issues discussed.

As for your comment of "cheap" I would say "inexpensive" and it never claims to be an all out fireburner extreme 3D 50 sizer. For that, you can go to the Raven 50, and fortunately for us who fly them it is just such a fireburner but it is still inexpensive....to buy and to operate.
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Old Sep 01, 2006, 01:02 PM
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You guys are funny! I thought this kind of "debate" only happened on the mini electric forum. I just saw the original post about the dude wanting advice on his first gas heli...and now its a scrap about century Hawks....each to their own...experiences and opinions are personal and correct for that person...lets get back to topic for the dude
Don't flame me, I only came in here because I saw the thread about "first gas heli" and was interested and then found this....
Peace all anyway
Cheers
Jam R
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Old Sep 01, 2006, 05:30 PM
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Jam R

I agree, That is why in my initial answer I stated:

"I think your money would be better spent on a used 30 size like a Hawk IV/Sport or Pro, or a Rappy 30V2 (not V1)."

I did not try to insult the purchasers of either by calling anything current "junk". I think my comment recognized full well that any heli "like" them would be better then the ancient one HubsOnDubs directed us to on e-bay.
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